Lesson 39: 3 Nephi 17-19

[pelagius]

I subbed today so I put some notes together.

http://ss.diether.org/?p=57

[ERCougar]

Interesting thoughts. One thing I noticed as I was reading through this yesterday is that he uses the words "ye cannot understand all my words which I am commanded of the Father to speak unto you at this time", implying to me that the upcoming teachings, not the Sermon on the Mount ones, are the ones they will not be able to understand. I guess you could read it both ways, but the present tense implies that he has things to teach now that they can't understand. He tells them to return to their homes and prepare to hear these, but they don't leave for another two chapters. The next teaching is on the Sacrament but that comes before they leave. When everyone returns from their homes, they witness the prayer between Him and the Father "and tongue cannot speak the words which he prayed, neither can be written by man the words which he prayed". I wonder if these are the words they were to prepare for.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Interesting thoughts. One thing I noticed as I was reading through this yesterday is that he uses the words "ye cannot understand all my words which I am commanded of the Father to speak unto you at this time", implying to me that the upcoming teachings, not the Sermon on the Mount ones, are the ones they will not be able to understand. I guess you could read it both ways, but the present tense implies that he has things to teach now that they can't understand.

I think both are implied by the context (I am reading the word "time" more generally than you but I don't think that matters too much in arguing that the lack of understanding applies both ex post and ex ante). Verse 3 suggests that, additionally, they don't understand what he has already taught. Hence the need to ponder tonight what has already been taught. Its pointless to go on to the advanced stuff unless they reflect properly on today's stuff. They didn't understand the teachings of today, but they also will not understand anything more that Jesus might want to teach without pondering and coming to an understanding of today's material.

[UtahDan]

We had a great discussion about 17:9 "for I see that your faith is sufficient that I should heal you."

Lots of questions and experiences of being physically healed, having ones heart healed but just as many about learning that sometimes the healing never comes notwithstanding all the faith we can bring to bear. Just a lot of really great authentic stories about how people had grappled with real problems and their desires, positive experiences and disappointments. To me this is the gospel at its best. The jist being that we can have our hearts healed, that we can have peace, but anything else is up to God and His will is not predictable on these matters.

We also had some good discussion about the idea that the healing came after "sufficient" faith, rather than perfect faith. The idea that sufficient means that which we can muster, even if it is less than another. Similar concept to not being able to run faster than you have strength. A lot of people really seemed taken with that concept.

I love 3 Nephi for the same reason I love the New Testament. Even if we have to hear the words through a human filter, they are still words of the Savior and his personality just shines through. I understand the idea that all the scriptures are the word of God, but it isn't the same for me, not remotely.