If he doesn't show up tomorrow,

[Solon]

Jesus will be 179 years late - according to George Rapp and the Harmonists, who anticipated that Christ's reign would begin on September 15, 1829.

The Millerites (predecessors to Seventh-Day Adventists) thought October 22, 1844 was the day to watch for. Joseph Smith was well aware of the Millerites, and as the date drew near he more than once addressed their specific date with prophecy of his own, seeming to hint that 1890 was a better bet for Christ's return.

[The goofy punctuation and grammar here are as faithful as I can be to the way the editors of The Words of Joseph Smith have preserved them. These are largely primary source notes and journal entries.]

14 February, 1835: [Joseph Smith said] it was the will of God that those who went Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh—even fifty-six years should wind up the scene. History of the Church vol. 2, pg. 182.

6 April, 1843: were I going to prophecy I would prophecy the end will not come in 1844 [i.e. the year the Millerites expected] or [184]5 or 6. or 40 years [more] . . . there are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till christ comes. I was once praying earnestly upon this subject. and a voice said unto me. My son, if thou livest till thou art 85 years of age, thou shalt see the face of the son of man.-- I was left to draw my own conclusions concerning this & I took the liberty to conclude that if I did live till that time . . . he would make his appearance.-- but I do not say whether he will make his appearance or i shall go where he is. --
I prophecy in the name of the Lord God. -- & let it be written. that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old 48 years hence or about 1890. (Joseph Smith Diary, recorded by Willard Richards, in The Words of Joseph Smith, pp. 179-180.)

[According to D&C 130.13, Joseph Smith heard this voice and the statement about 85 years of age on Dec. 25, 1832.]

10 March, 1844: [Joseph Smith said] the Revelation of the Son of Man from Heaven, would not be in this year, nor the next; and he would say to his Millerite friends, that it would not be in forty years to come. He uttered all this in the name of the Lord, and said we should go home and write it – (recorded in the John Solomon Fullmer Papers, The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 336.)

I think it's worth remembering that Joseph Smith and the early LDS did not operate in a vacuum, but they gave to, took from, influenced, and reacted to other religious movements of their time and place.

[Solon]

Really? Nobody's interested in whether Joseph Smith was predicting Jesus' Second Coming in or around 1890? The "even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" and "there are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till christ comes" didn't pique anyone enough to comment?

I give up.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Solon

Really? Nobody's interested in whether Joseph Smith was predicting Jesus' Second Coming in or around 1890? The "even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" and "there are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till christ comes" didn't pique anyone enough to comment?

I give up.

When I worked that stuff, I came away confused what he was trying to say, and because the actual prediction stuff wasn't true, it kinda fell by the wayside.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Solon

Really? Nobody's interested in whether Joseph Smith was predicting Jesus' Second Coming in or around 1890? The "even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" and "there are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till christ comes" didn't pique anyone enough to comment?

I give up.

Doesn't the fact Joseph died 50 years early kind of nullify the prophecy?

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Tex

Doesn't the fact Joseph died 50 years early kind of nullify the prophecy?

That's the FAIR response.

The irony of being an apologist is amazing to me. One is astounded by the amount of mental gymnastics it requires to be a believer of a different religion and yet one is a better gymnast than Miss Johnson.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by Solon

Really? Nobody's interested in whether Joseph Smith was predicting Jesus' Second Coming in or around 1890? The "even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" and "there are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till christ comes" didn't pique anyone enough to comment?

I look at it this way: while Joseph was alive, the Latter-Day movement was greatly accellerated. Revelations flowed, persecutions flowed, feathers were ruffled, religions hated us, governments took action against us.

After the martyrdom, the saints quietly moved westward and things cooled down.

Had society faced another 44 years of all that Joseph brought to the table, things would have much more rapidly progressed to the point where Christ would feel compelled to return and cleanse this mess.

However, in this chapter from the Book of ute4ever, the issue becomes how to square that theory (an 1890 deadline) with the concept that no man knows the date or the hour.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Solon

Really? Nobody's interested in whether Joseph Smith was predicting Jesus' Second Coming in or around 1890? The "even fifty-six years should wind up the scene" and "there are those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till christ comes" didn't pique anyone enough to comment?

I give up.

Have you heard of a conditional statement before?

My son, if thou livest till thou art 85 years of age, [then] thou shalt see the face of the son of man.

Could it be entirely possible that since he didn't live anywhere near that long that the timetable was altered?

I was left to draw my own conclusions concerning this & I took the liberty to conclude that if I did live till that time . . . he would make his appearance.

He admits up front he's filling in the blanks.

-- but I do not say whether he will make his appearance or i shall go where he is.

Again, it shows the uncertainty he has in the information he received.

--I prophecy in the name of the Lord God.-- & let it be written. that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old 48 years hence or about 1890.

About the only thing he's willing to weigh in with complete certainty is the MINIMUM amount of time before Christ's appearance, which nullifies the Millerites' contention.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

That's the FAIR response.

It's also the fair response.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

That's the FAIR response.

The irony of being an apologist is amazing to me. One is astounded by the amount of mental gymnastics it requires to be a believer of a different religion and yet one is a better gymnast than Miss Johnson.

If there's one thing fusnik understands, it's mental gymnastics.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Have you heard of a conditional statement before?

You're oversimplifying, and your weak-sauce insult is lame. Of course I've heard of a conditional statement. There's more to it, as the context demonstrates. But you probably skipped that part.

Been reading long?