Why are people anti-union?

[Alkili]

My parents were both teachers, and always bad mouthed the teachers union. I've always been anti-union and don't even know why.

I guess seeing whats happening with the airlines is pretty bad, but my father in law is a trucker and has made out pretty well because of the union.

[The_Tick]

That tells me that your parents are good teachers then. The only teacher that doesn't complain about the Union is a lazy not very good teacher.

My wife is a teacher and hates the Union.

Unions were a good idea when they started out. They are useless now though.

They are killing the auto industry, and have almost killed the airline industry.


I hate Unions for 2 reasons...

My dads father was a big wig in the Teamsters Union. I have pictures of my dads father with Mr. Hoffa. (I don't call him my grandfather, but that is a longer story) He was a dirty man though. Always felt bad around him. He cared about the Union more than employees.


Reason #2

I worked for a subsidiary of Boeing for a while. I was a new employee in a dept. where folks averaged 10 years of employment there.

If the paperwork says that it takes 18 hours to put that nut and bolt together, that is all you do. Don't do any more than that. We don't get paid to do more than than.

So after about a year I was frustrated with it all. I start building parts that the paperwork says takes 8 hours from start to finish. I was building 3 parts a day. Easy enough to do if you don't... 1. Take a 15 minutes smoke break every hour. 2. Take a 15 minute coffee break every hour. 3. Nail your boss during lunch every day. (I kid you not. My lead was nailing to bosses for a majority of my 2 years there. On a daily basis.)

So.... here comes Mr. Union Rep and shop steward. They pull me in an office and I get put on probabation. I wasn't being a good lemming. If I kept it up they were going to have the company let me go.

Something about me being too efficiant. I was taking food off of other peoples table.

BS

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Originally Posted by The_Tick

That tells me that your parents are good teachers then. The only teacher that doesn't complain about the Union is a lazy not very good teacher.

I'd apply that on an 80/20 basis. My father-in-law is a fantastic teacher and one of the most pro-union guys I know. I think he's mistaken, but he will argue to his grave that the UEA is the only thing keeping the education system together.

In his defense (which is not usually the side I take). He has been sued 2x by parents who felt that he was discriminating against their children.

One was a cheerleader who refused to turn in any homework. He gave her a d- based on his published points scale. Her parents asked the administration to have the grade changed so that she could cheer. He refused and they took it to court. The district said he was on his own, the UEA funded his defense (he won).

The other was a similar situation. A kid never came to class, got low Bs on most of his tests, but never turned in his homework and refused to do the "make up" assigments my father-in-law offered. He gave the kid a c- (again consistent with his published points scale) and the kids parents took the issue to court saying that their kid was being kept from an athletic scholarship at a University because of that grade. The district left him high and dry and the UEA helped out again.

Obviously, these are isolated incidents of psycho parents and possibly the ONE time when the UEA actually does something good, but you can understand why he's so loyal.

[il Padrino Ute]

My Mom taught 2nd grad for 40 years and refused to be a part of the teachers' union, mostly becuse she didn't like the political leaning of the UEA.

There was one particular parent who really had a problem that my Mom required that her son should do the same amount of work as the other students. This was a very wealthy woman who somehow got the principal to cave in to her demands, but Mom wouldn't budge. When another teacher - who happened to be the President of the UEA - tried to use this to bully Mom into joining the union because, in her words, "you need the UEA to help you fight the battle", Mom told her that "the day she needed an organization to fight her battles is the day that I stop thinking for myself".

As for me, I don't like unions because as someone here so accurately stated "the union is good for management, ot the worker."

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

There was one particular parent who really had a problem that my Mom required that her son should do the same amount of work as the other students. This was a very wealthy woman who somehow got the principal to cave in to her demands, but Mom wouldn't budge.

What is with that? If my dad/mom went to a teacher and found out the reason I was getting a bad grade was because I wouldn't do the work, the LAST thing that would occur to them is to try and get the teacher to change the grade.

And what the hell is with the Principal caving in? I've heard this story about 1000 times (I know a lot of teachers).

Student does poorly, teacher explains what student needs to do to get a decent grade, student doesn't do it, parents complain/sue the teacher.

In most of these cases my old man would have given me a swift kick in the ass (a-la-Red Forman) and told me to go in and do whatever the teacher asked and then say thank you for not flunking me.

Do these parents really think they're helping their children?

[Alkili]

Originally Posted by The_Tick

My dads father was a big wig in the Teamsters Union. I have pictures of my dads father with Mr. Hoffa. (I don't call him my grandfather, but that is a longer story) He was a dirty man though. Always felt bad around him. He cared about the Union more than employees.

My wife's grandfather has pictures with him and Hoffa in them. Now her uncle is working for Teamsters.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

What is with that? If my dad/mom went to a teacher and found out the reason I was getting a bad grade was because I wouldn't do the work, the LAST thing that would occur to them is to try and get the teacher to change the grade.

And what the hell is with the Principal caving in? I've heard this story about 1000 times (I know a lot of teachers).

Student does poorly, teacher explains what student needs to do to get a decent grade, student doesn't do it, parents complain/sue the teacher.

In most of these cases my old man would have given me a swift kick in the ass (a-la-Red Forman) and told me to go in and do whatever the teacher asked and then say thank you for not flunking me.

Do these parents really think they're helping their children?

Unfortunately, it's how the world is today. Parents don't want to have to spend time doing what is needed to help their kid - help with homework, signing up to be a class parent at the school, etc. - but demand that the teacher not hold the kid accountable. Also, these kids are spoiled and feel that they're entitled to a good grade because their parents have money. Of course, it's not just limited to those with money, as those without money demonstrate the same sense of entitlement.

As for principals caving into the pressure, I have no idea why. Perhaps something about administration makes one a wuss.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Alkili

My wife's grandfather has pictures with him and Hoffa in them. Now her uncle is working for Teamsters.

I just ate at the last place Jimmy Hoffa was seen alive (The red coat tavern on Woodward Avenue) Does that count for anything?

[tooblue]

I do not have enough time right now to tell you why I hate my union ... there are not enough words to describe my disdain.

I teach in my area of expertise, am fairly compensated and have an amazing work schedule ... My work schedule is my most closely guarded secret -mostly due to the guilt I feel when others describe their schedule.

.... I can't, I won't respond ...

[ChinoCoug]

If you remember from 110, capital is fixed in the short run, not allowing firms to produce at its most efficient point. With unions, labor is fixed in the short run too (or long run, the union is fierce), giving the firm a double whammy.