Jared Diamond's _Collapse_ [MOFOE discussion] - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Jeff Lebowski · 01-30-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I watched the PBS doc "guns, germs and steel" part I yesterday.

Diamond, himself, appears throughout the documentary. He has a weird way of talking. I couldn't figure out the accent, but having read his wiki biog I assume it is a variation of a Bostonian accent.

Anyway, he of course asserts that the geographical nature of eurasia led to technological superiority. I.e. exchange of ideas and technology were much easier in Eurasia. He talked also about the role of domestic animals.

Interesting that the Mayans had a written language but the Incas did not. If one believes the Book of Mormon that steel was made in the Americas, one wonders about "lost" technologies. I.e. civilizations that were culturally advanced are wiped out by aggressive civilizations.

A counter argument to Diamond's hypothesis is wouldn't variation in climate encourage trade? (i.e. I have something you can't make, and vice versa, let's trade). I don't know...

I set TIVO to record part II where he talks about African conquest. The first part was about Pizarro and the Incas.

I enjoyed Diamond's writing style. Pretty fascinating book. Definitely changed the way I look at the world in many ways.

SeattleUte · 01-31-2006, 05:47 PM

I enjoyed Diamond's writing style. Pretty fascinating book. Definitely changed the way I look at the world in many ways.[/quote]

The opening of "Guns, Germs and Steel" is as captivating as any I have experienced. Diamond quotes extensively from that padre's diary describing Pizarro's vicous conquest of the Incas. Then he asks the following rhetorical question that goes to the whole point of the book (I'm paraphrasing): "Why didn't Atahualpa go in a sailing ship with 100 men to Spain, trick the King of Spain, execute him, and then subjugate millions of Spaniards with his force of 100?" Your first reaction is to say, "Well, of course, becuse Atahualpa didn't have any massive oceangoing sailing ships, horses, guns, steel," then it hits you--Why didn't he have these things? Diamond poses the question--essentially THE question of our day and age--in a way that most people have never considered, and the reader is hooked.

bluegoose · 02-03-2006, 07:35 PM

I caught bits and pieces of the Guns documentary on PBS the past couple of weeks. I thought it was fairly well done.

One segment that stood out to me was the bit on New Guinea. The comparisons were made between NG and some of the more technologically advanced regions of the world. His premise was that one of the primary reasons for the technology suppression of those people was due to the crops they planted and harvested. For some reason, I can't remember right now, they were unable to plant some of the mass-producing crops more prevalent in other areas. Despite arid, drought conditions, the middle east had wheat, and of course Asia had rice.

The NG people were also never able to utilize animals to aid with their work, in contrast to other regions where cows and horses were commonly used to till the earth. As a result, nearly all of the time of community members was devoted to feeding themselves, rather than advancing technology. Apparently steel was never introduced to them as a tool until the 60's and 70's.

Interesting spin on things. I don't know if I can necessarily draw a causation for the differences in societies from his conclusions, but I thought the piece was fairly well researched and presented.

01-31-2006, 05:47 PM	#12
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	I enjoyed Diamond's writing style. Pretty fascinating book. Definitely changed the way I look at the world in many ways.[/quote] The opening of "Guns, Germs and Steel" is as captivating as any I have experienced. Diamond quotes extensively from that padre's diary describing Pizarro's vicous conquest of the Incas. Then he asks the following rhetorical question that goes to the whole point of the book (I'm paraphrasing): "Why didn't Atahualpa go in a sailing ship with 100 men to Spain, trick the King of Spain, execute him, and then subjugate millions of Spaniards with his force of 100?" Your first reaction is to say, "Well, of course, becuse Atahualpa didn't have any massive oceangoing sailing ships, horses, guns, steel," then it hits you--Why didn't he have these things? Diamond poses the question--essentially THE question of our day and age--in a way that most people have never considered, and the reader is hooked. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

02-03-2006, 07:35 PM	#13
bluegoose Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,919	I caught bits and pieces of the Guns documentary on PBS the past couple of weeks. I thought it was fairly well done. One segment that stood out to me was the bit on New Guinea. The comparisons were made between NG and some of the more technologically advanced regions of the world. His premise was that one of the primary reasons for the technology suppression of those people was due to the crops they planted and harvested. For some reason, I can't remember right now, they were unable to plant some of the mass-producing crops more prevalent in other areas. Despite arid, drought conditions, the middle east had wheat, and of course Asia had rice. The NG people were also never able to utilize animals to aid with their work, in contrast to other regions where cows and horses were commonly used to till the earth. As a result, nearly all of the time of community members was devoted to feeding themselves, rather than advancing technology. Apparently steel was never introduced to them as a tool until the 60's and 70's. Interesting spin on things. I don't know if I can necessarily draw a causation for the differences in societies from his conclusions, but I thought the piece was fairly well researched and presented.