Quick question re: Prop 8

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by smokymountainrain

Thanks for the response. That does answer the question, and if I were in CA, I very well might make the same decision you are making. I honestly don't know what I would do.

It is a tough call, only because I can't get past the stupor of thought phase. I have definitely studied it out in my mind, but can get no real closure on the issue.

At Church, we sang "Who's on the Lord's Side." Perhaps it was strategic planning on the ward's part, who knows. There were lots of Prop 8 references in F&T. But as I sang the words, I definitely felt great pause.

Curse you, uplifting hymns!

The bottom line for me is that regardless of Prop 8, the Church is pretty rad. I know CatBlue feels differently, and he is rad in a physical/sexual energy sort of way, but for me, the Church is a divine institution that houses the best of us and the worst of us. We are all free to make our mistakes, exorcise our demons, and strive to better our lives each day. I am grateful for it and wouldn't trade it for anything. Except another National Championship in football.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

It is a tough call, only because I can't get past the stupor of thought phase. I have definitely studied it out in my mind, but can get no real closure on the issue.

At Church, we sang "Who's on the Lord's Side." Perhaps it was strategic planning on the ward's part, who knows. There were lots of Prop 8 references in F&T. But as I sang the words, I definitely felt great pause.

Curse you, uplifting hymns!

The bottom line for me is that regardless of Prop 8, the Church is pretty rad. I know CatBlue feels differently, and he is rad in a physical/sexual energy sort of way, but for me, the Church is a divine institution that houses the best of us and the worst of us. We are all free to make our mistakes, exorcise our demons, and strive to better our lives each day. I am grateful for it and wouldn't trade it for anything. Except another National Championship in football.

I'd go to SS for a year if it gave us another NC in football.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

Sorry, I was under the impression you meant it on the issue of homosexuality generally.

No. More specifically, at one point in the BSA case, the church issued a statement saying that if SCOTUS ruled that gays could not be kicked out of BSA, the church would abandon scouting altogether, thus adding pressure on BSA to maintain their policy and push the case through. This hard line stance is what the GA was referring to in our conversation.

[Grigor]

To me, this question boils down to whether or not we think the FP is infalliable in political issues. I know the FP is infalliable in doctrinal issues but this is a unique case where doctrine and politics tend to blur together. Here, I've paraphrased the FP's statement and highlighted where I feel the doctrinal and political parts seperate:

The concept of same-sex marriage is a sin and in direct opposition of our view of the family unit, as defined as being a union between a man and a woman, being a divinely appointed unit and of vital importance to the preservation of the values we hold, therefore we should support constitutional amendments to ban same-sex marriage.

My feeling on this is that I agree with the doctrinal parts of the FP's message, but I'm still not sure that Prop 8 is the best way to get there. Whatever happened to the spirit of contention being of the devil?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Grigor

Whatever happened to the spirit of contention being of the devil?

Good point. Should I call the missionaries and tell them to come home or do you want to do it?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by creekster

Good point. Should I call the missionaries and tell them to come home or do you want to do it?

This is a common straw man. Missionary work is not by definition contentious.

This is the same kind of nonsense that equates putting a "Yes For 8" sign in your yard, with creating a website listing every pro-8 Mormon's name and encouraging harassment.

[Grigor]

Originally Posted by creekster

Good point. Should I call the missionaries and tell them to come home or do you want to do it?

Wasn't my point. I was referencing the method many church members use to support prop 8. In fact, I think missionary work would be more effective than Prop 8. From what I've observed of human nature, the only way to get somebody to stop doing something is to make them not want to do it anymore.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Grigor

From what I've observed of human nature, the only way to get somebody to stop doing something is to

tell them they have to do it.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

This is a common straw man. Missionary work is not by definition contentious.

This is the same kind of nonsense that equates putting a "Yes For 8" sign in your yard, with creating a website listing every pro-8 Mormon's name and encouraging harassment.

Well, my point was iti s no more contentious than missionary work. Advocationg a positionin an election is not necessarily contentious.

WHile I am typing, let me also add that the political/doctrinal dichotomy is fraught with problems, IMO. It does not break cleanly, not here or anywhere else. This approach as stated by Grigor also ignores the role of the FP as Seers. If you beleive they are seers, they may be given a vision of what will happen if any given policy is not adopted. Not saying they have here, but just saying this anlaysis seems to ignore that role.

[Grigor]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

tell them they have to do it.

Or that.

Originally Posted by creekster

WHile I am typing, let me also add that the political/doctrinal dichotomy is fraught with problems, IMO. It does not break cleanly, not here or anywhere else. This approach as stated by Grigor also ignores the role of the FP as Seers. If you beleive they are seers, they may be given a vision of what will happen if any given policy is not adopted. Not saying they have here, but just saying this anlaysis seems to ignore that role.

Hm, that is a good point. I think they see what will happen should homosexual marriage be allowed to thrive, and I agree that it's not a good thing for our values. So... I suppose the FP is supporting Prop 8 because it seems to be destined to set a precedence for many other states. I've never thought of it that way, thanks.