Road to Apostasy/Inactivity?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

LOL. I can envision this announcement as having been made with a few college chums at a crappy bar on SLC's west side, and while it led to the elimination of the first barrier, I'm sure it was no help whatsoever with the second.

Sorry. You're off the mark. 3D's satire was more like it.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

If you knew my family you would realize how funny this is. There was a time when I felt like every major life decision had to be attended with such a formal announcement and fanfare. Often controversy that seemed like meat for talking head shows. Big Mormon families can be oppressive, can't they.

I don't know. My family isn't Mormon, although we are still pretty decent sized, even for LDS standards.

[cougarobgon]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Why can't you just respect your friends' personal beliefs and choices? Does it surprise you that the overwhelming majority of educated people when confronted with claims of angels and Christ appearing in shafts of light dismiss it as myth or fabrication? Does it surprise you that Mormon culture seems, well, banal if not farsical and sacarin, to most people not raised in it? Check out the threads here that discuss sacrament meetings. Seems to me most Mormons capable of critical thought roundly dislike LDS meetings with really rare exceptions (the consensus seems to be maybe 2-3 sacrament meetings a year are not a total waste of time).

Most people who aren't in Mormonism's thrall also don't see anything wrong with a glass of wine or intercourse between unmarried consenting adults. This facile conclusion--"they didn't want to keep the covenants so they invented a brief against Mormonism"--assumes Mormonism has a lot more going for it on the merits than it does and that anyone who opts out of the ultra-conservative Mormon way of life is immoral. It's a parochial and self-deluded view.

By the way, I'd never tasted alcohol or had extra-marital sex when I announced my apostasy as a college student.

The reason for my post is that lately I have been thinking about two good friends that have fallen away from the Church. While I will not go into the details of the choices they made, it is interesting to me to see how two good men, whose talents and dedication at one time influenced the lives of many Church members, fell away from the Church. While they have completely fallen away, they remain my friends and I am sure each would do anything for me and my family as would I for them. They are both well educated, one is a doctor while the other is a college professor. The doctor was a counselor of mine in a bishopric while the other was a beloved mission companion. I see the doctor on a professional basis and he always speaks fondly about the Church, his time as my counselor, and other Church members. I gather from my conversations with him that he continues to believe that the Church is true, however, he does not see himself coming back to Church in the near future.

The college professor began to fall away from the Church during his days at BYU. He describes beginning to question the existence of God during his final years at the school and the answers given to him by his religion professors did not satisfy him. Further, his interaction with supposedly righteous members that lived contrary to their beliefs further turned him away from the Church. While he remains a friend to the Church, he no longer believes in God or any organized religion, but continues to support his wife who has remained active in the Church and ocassionally attends Church services with her.

While I respect their choices and new found beliefs, I can't help but wonder how these two individuals that were with me on several ocassions where I know the Spirit (for those of us that believe) was present, could turn away from what they had been taught all their lives and the experiences we shared. What makes it easier for me to respect their choices and new found beliefs, is that they remain friends of the Church and do not go out of their way to disparage that which I consider to be sacred.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

The reason for my post is that lately I have been thinking about two good friends that have fallen away from the Church. While I will not go into the details of the choices they made, it is interesting to me to see how two good men, whose talents and dedication at one time influenced the lives of many Church members, fell away from the Church. While they have completely fallen away, they remain my friends and I am sure each would do anything for me and my family as would I for them. They are both well educated, one is a doctor while the other is a college professor. The doctor was a counselor of mine in a bishopric while the other was a beloved mission companion. I see the doctor on a professional basis and he always speaks fondly about the Church, his time as my counselor, and other Church members. I gather from my conversations with him that he continues to believe that the Church is true, however, he does not see himself coming back to Church in the near future.

The college professor began to fall away from the Church during his days at BYU. He describes beginning to question the existence of God during his final years at the school and the answers given to him by his religion professors did not satisfy him. Further, his interaction with supposedly righteous members that lived contrary to their beliefs further turned him away from the Church. While he remains a friend to the Church, he no longer believes in God or any organized religion, but continues to support his wife who has remained active in the Church and ocassionally attends Church services with her.

While I respect their choices and new found beliefs, I can't help but wonder how these two individuals that were with me on several ocassions where I know the Spirit (for those of us that believe) was present, could turn away from what they had been taught all their lives and the experiences we shared. What makes it easier for me to respect their choices and new found beliefs, is that they remain friends of the Church and do not go out of their way to disparage that which I consider to be sacred.

Friedrich Nietzsche said philosophers and doctors are the mortal enemies of religion.

[Tex]

It's telling that when someone says "breaking your covenants," the first discussion items that pop up are alcohol and sex.

I hate to be the one to spoil the party: one can be chaste and alcohol free and still be breaking one's covenants.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

It's telling that when someone says "breaking your covenants," the first discussion items that pop up are alcohol and sex.

I hate to be the one to spoil the party: one can be chaste and alcohol free and still be breaking one's covenants.

you mean coming hear and criticizing LDS leaders, don't you

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

It's telling that when someone says "breaking your covenants," the first discussion items that pop up are alcohol and sex.

I hate to be the one to spoil the party: one can be chaste and alcohol free and still be breaking one's covenants.

You are correct.

For example, one can be a self-righteous judgmental a-hole that everyone dislikes and be breaking his covenants.

[smokymountainrain]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Does it surprise you that the overwhelming majority of educated people when confronted with claims of angels and Christ appearing in shafts of light dismiss it as myth or fabrication?

Um, I'm fairly confident that the overwhelming majority of ALL people, "when confronted with claims of angels and Christ appearing in shafts of light dismiss it as myth or fabrication".

You like to think that the fact that you have fallen away from the Church has more to do with education than it does anything else, but my guess is laziness is the biggest factor.

[BYU71]

I am neither an apostate or on my way to apostacy unless of course not believing the honor code is from God is breaking a convenant. I also will admit I don't go to Sunday School ever, Priesthood rarely and when approached every week in Sacrament and bugged about going to Empty Nesters, under my breath I am thinking, "you keep bugging me and I am not coming to Sacrament anymore either." So if that attitude is on the road, well maybe I am in denial.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Tex

It's telling that when someone says "breaking your covenants," the first discussion items that pop up are alcohol and sex.

I hate to be the one to spoil the party: one can be chaste and alcohol free and still be breaking one's covenants.

I am with you on this one. Like being dishonest with your fellow man. While that one isn't enforced here on earth, I think it will be a shock to many members that it is enforced in the hereafter.