on Blessings

[creekster]

I frequently see arguments in this forum that involve directly or tangentially the notion that it is inconceivable that God would bless you for some behavior or another. For example, some express skepticism that God would bless us for following a leader even if he is wrong. This makes me wonder what we think a blessing is.

The premise for some of these types of comments seem to be that as we perform some act or another God will endow us with some attribute or perhaps some advantage. IOW, it is a supernatural occurrence. I don't think blessings are typically given to us in that manner.

In my mind, God prescribes many rules of conduct. We are told to be charitable, loving, patient, kind, to be concerned about our fellow person and so forth. These are intrinsically good acts and positive communal behaviors. Blessings flow necessarily from such actions, not by means of a supernatural endowment, but as a natural consequence of the positive act. If we are patient with someone in our lives, we develop patience and learn self control. If we act charitably we develop a charitable nature which improves lives around us and makes us happier. The blessings are inherent in the positive act. This is why anyone can obtain blessings from God, if you will, because these acts naturally lead to positive benefits.

This is not to suggest that blessings are only given to us as a natural consequence of our actions. IMO, God can and does strengthen us and assists us in pursuing these positive actions. Moreover, at times God can perform miracles both with or without humans as instruments of action. Even so, many times we are promised blessings through obedience and I think this means that the positive acts themselves lead to positive effects on us and others around us which we will recognize as blessings.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by creekster

I frequently see arguments in this forum that involve directly or tangentially the notion that it is inconceivable that God would bless you for some behavior or another. For example, some express skepticism that God would bless us for following a leader even if he is wrong. This makes me wonder what we think a blessing is.

The premise for some of these types of comments seem to be that as we perform some act or another God will endow us with some attribute or perhaps some advantage. IOW, it is a supernatural occurrence. I don't think blessings are typically given to us in that manner.

In my mind, God prescribes many rules of conduct. We are told to be charitable, loving, patient, kind, to be concerned about our fellow person and so forth. These are intrinsically good acts and positive communal behaviors. Blessings flow necessarily from such actions, not by means of a supernatural endowment, but as a natural consequence of the positive act. If we are patient with someone in our lives, we develop patience and learn self control. If we act charitably we develop a charitable nature which improves lives around us and makes us happier. The blessings are inherent in the positive act. This is why anyone can obtain blessings from God, if you will, because these acts naturally lead to positive benefits.

This is not to suggest that blessings are only given to us as a natural consequence of our actions. IMO, God can and does strengthen us and assists us in pursuing these positive actions. Moreover, at times God can perform miracles both with or without humans as instruments of action. Even so, many times we are promised blessings through obedience and I think this means that the positive acts themselves lead to positive effects on us and others around us which we will recognize as blessings.

I think it IS possible to be blessed from following a prophet in a counsel that is wrong. However, if you believe that principle, then you also have to believe that people in other religions can be blessed from following their leaders when they're wrong, a tenet I think that many in the Church wouldn't believe (i.e. what if that church leader discourages them from listening to the missionaries?). Ultimately, the single most important principle we can learn in this life that will carry us through the eternities is to submit our will to what we truly believe is right. Whether or not we're correct in our view of what "right" is is much less important than the act of following it. Thus, if people truly believe in their heart that Prop 8 is the will of God, I think they will be blessed by working for its passage. If they believe that it's against the will of God, they'll be blessed for fighting it.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

I think it IS possible to be blessed from following a prophet in a counsel that is wrong. However, if you believe that principle, then you also have to believe that people in other religions can be blessed from following their leaders when they're wrong, a tenet I think that many in the Church wouldn't believe (i.e. what if that church leader discourages them from listening to the missionaries?). Ultimately, the single most important principle we can learn in this life that will carry us through the eternities is to submit our will to what we truly believe is right. Whether or not we're correct in our view of what "right" is is much less important than the act of following it. Thus, if people truly believe in their heart that Prop 8 is the will of God, I think they will be blessed by working for its passage. If they believe that it's against the will of God, they'll be blessed for fighting it.

I was hoping to have a broader discussion of the nature of blessings and so perhaps should not have used that example. But I do agree that submission to what we think is right is important, but sometimes the right answer does matter. In other words satisfaction in ignorance will not meet eternal approval, in my mind.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by creekster

I was hoping to have a broader discussion of the nature of blessings and so perhaps should not have used that example. But I do agree that submission to what we think is right is important, but sometimes the right answer does matter. In other words satisfaction in ignorance will not meet eternal approval, in my mind.

Sorry to hijack, but I have to respond...

I agree that satisfaction in ignorace will not meet eternal approval. I should have added the additional requirement that we always seek to find out what "right" is. The problem is that we all "see through a glass darkly" and thus many end up at different answers. I think we agree that the differences in sincerely-sought answers aren't all that important.

The part of this that does relate to your point is that there is a subtle change that occurs in your heart each time you submit your natural tendencies to something above you that you believe is good and right, and I think this is a blessing of obedience.

[Tex]

Question: what do you think is really meant by "to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams"?

I'm not trying to play scriptural gotcha; I'm being serious. Here we have a guy, Saul, who felt he had a better use for the spoil of the Amalekties than Samuel had. And he even tried to convince Samuel he'd taken the higher road: "Blessed be thou of the Lord: I have performed the commandment of the Lord."

For those who believe in a glorious alternate righteousness in defying the prophet because of one's own convictions, how do you comport that belief with that scripture/story? Do you find Samuel's rebuke unfair? Do you think you are different than Saul and if so, how?

[RockyBalboa]

Something that I've always thought was a little peculiar from the majority of the "intellectuals" here is how quick they are to dismiss someone if they feel that following certain counsel (whatever that maybe) in their life has lead them to feel that blessing(s) that resulted from it occurred.

If someone feels that by faith through paying tithing that they'll always be provided for an taken care of then who are we to piss on that? You'll see some in the opposite of.."Well what about those that did and still had hardships?" I don't have an answer for that.

That's just an example.

What I'm saying is why are so many so quick to tear down what someone believes was the direct result of prayer and/or faith?

Even if that person is a mullah or an intellectual extremist. There seems to be a cry for open minded-ness that has permeated this board for a long time, but oft times that courtesy is not respectfully returned when issues of faith arise.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Something that I've always thought was a little peculiar from the majority of the "intellectuals" here is how quick they are to dismiss someone if they feel that following certain counsel (whatever that maybe) in their life has lead them to feel that blessing(s) that resulted from it occurred.

If someone feels that by faith through paying tithing that they'll always be provided for an taken care of then who are we to piss on that? You'll see some in the opposite of.."Well what about those that did and still had hardships?" I don't have an answer for that.

That's just an example.

What I'm saying is why are so many so quick to tear down what someone believes was the direct result of prayer and/or faith?

Even if that person is a mullah or an intellectual extremist. There seems to be a cry for open minded-ness that has permeated this board for a long time, but oft times that courtesy is not respectfully returned when issues of faith arise.

Didn't I just make the point that people can certainly be blessed for following the prophet's counsel on this, even though I may disagree with them?

What I instead see on here is a whole lot of exUte-style pissing on those who are following their convictions. Who are they to piss on that?

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Didn't I just make the point that people can certainly be blessed for following the prophet's counsel on this, even though I may disagree with them?

What I instead see on here is a whole lot of exUte-style pissing on those who are following their convictions. Who are they to piss on that?

I agree.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I agree.

OK...I reread your post and I see the point you're making. I'm with you.

[ute4ever]

Re: my take on blessings from paying tithing

Suppose the average breakdown of one's household income is as follows:
30% taxes
30% mortgage
10% cars (gas, maintenance, insurance)
10% utilities & insurance

That leaves 20% for tithing and personal spending. How many people pay their 10% tithing, but proceed to spend more than 10% on personal, and then cry about not being blessed in their rising debts, and cry about non-tithe payers having twice as much to spend? The key is to not expect "in faith" for God to magically cram your 110% into 100%, but to do your own shifting from 100% down to 90%. Trim the mortgage from 30 to 25%. Trim the cars from 10 to 8%. Trim the personal spending from 20 to 17%. It may mean having to suffer through life without as big of a house as the Joneses and having to drive a car without a nice shiny L in a circle on the grill.