The BYU identity

[jay santos]

Little off topic, but the commercials BYU runs during football games when each school gets a chance to run a little public service ad are lame. We use to run a cool ad with the Biology professor with some acclaim or highlight some other academic achievement. Now we talk about the service we did to build houses for the homeless or whatever. OK, that's good. But it seems to reinforce all the lame stereotypes about BYU.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Little off topic, but the commercials BYU runs during football games when each school gets a chance to run a little public service ad are lame. We use to run a cool ad with the Biology professor with some acclaim or highlight some other academic achievement. Now we talk about the service we did to build houses for the homeless or whatever. OK, that's good. But it seems to reinforce all the lame stereotypes about BYU.

I haven't seen those service ads. But given how little charity the church does at the local level, I don't think that they fit into a Mormon stereotype at all.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Little off topic, but the commercials BYU runs during football games when each school gets a chance to run a little public service ad are lame. We use to run a cool ad with the Biology professor with some acclaim or highlight some other academic achievement. Now we talk about the service we did to build houses for the homeless or whatever. OK, that's good. But it seems to reinforce all the lame stereotypes about BYU.

I have to disagree with you there Jay. I think there are probably more minorities seen than actually represents the BYU populous. I think it shows also more care about the community than really represents the BYU populous.

The commercials for integrity, honor and whatever are getting a little old for me. Now there is the stereotype for ya. I could live a little better with the commerical if a disclaimor came at the end that said, "however, like everyone else, for us money trumps integrity and honor."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I haven't seen those service ads. But given how little charity the church does at the local level, I don't think that they fit into a Mormon stereotype at all.

How many service projects did the average non-LDS church-attending 12 year old participate in last year? I think we do just fine on the level of service.

Everyone knows us as do-gooders.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

How many service projects did the average non-LDS church-attending 12 year old participate in last year? I think we do just fine on the level of service.

Everyone knows us as do-gooders.

Not true.

Most of our service projects are cutting a Mormon widow's lawn once a year.

About 3 years ago, the stake public affairs chair got up and told us that she had talked to city officials about the church getting involved in some service, and she was told basically "no thanks" that our people are disorganized, unreliable, and that the church had the reputation as the least community-service oriented church in the city.

And the worst part? It was all true.

Many major charitable efforts in Dallas are funded and backed by local churches or religious organizations.

After all this, our region worked with Habitat to build a new park. I helped out, it was a good experience.

There's been no community effort by our stake or region since, that I am aware of.

Sending down a shipping container to some disaster zone is not service.

I guess the natural man in me is quite pleased, that in addition to church meetings, lesson preparation, scout campouts, presidency meetings, Ward Council, scout meetings, YM and DTG activities, hometeaching, etc. that I dont' have to worry about community service.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Not true.

Most of our service projects are cutting a Mormon widow's lawn once a year.

About 3 years ago, the stake public affairs chair got up and told us that she had talked to city officials about the church getting involved in some service, and she was told basically "no thanks" that our people are disorganized, unreliable, and that the church had the reputation as the least community-service oriented church in the city.

And the worst part? It was all true.

Many major charitable efforts in Dallas are funded and backed by local churches or religious organizations.

After all this, our region worked with Habitat to build a new park. I helped out, it was a good experience.

There's been no community effort by our stake or region since, that I am aware of.

Sending down a shipping container to some disaster zone is not service.

I guess the natural man in me is quite pleased, that in addition to church meetings, lesson preparation, scout campouts, presidency meetings, Ward Council, scout meetings, YM and DTG activities, hometeaching, etc. that I dont' have to worry about community service.

I've heard you tell that story before and I know it has impacted you. But I'll take more data points than the public affairs specialist in a stake in Dallas. And I've seen hundreds of data points from both LDS and non-LDS sources that say Mormons are known as do-gooders and heavily involved in community service.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I've heard you tell that story before and I know it has impacted you. But I'll take more data points than the public affairs specialist in a stake in Dallas. And I've seen hundreds of data points from both LDS and non-LDS sources that say Mormons are known as do-gooders and heavily involved in community service.

Can you point me to an example of an ongoing resource-intensive act of LDS sponsored local community service?

When I say "resource-intensive", I am suggesting that things like "adopt-a-highway" litter cleanups are the sort of thing that I am saying don't count.

You know, something that has at least one employee and has a building.

The church has its welfare food centers and LDS social services, but I wouldnt' consider them to be in place for the benefit of the community.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Can you point me to an example of an ongoing resource-intensive act of LDS sponsored local community service?

When I say "resource-intensive", I am suggesting that things like "adopt-a-highway" litter cleanups are the sort of thing that I am saying don't count.

You know, something that has at least one employee and has a building.

The church has its welfare food centers and LDS social services, but I wouldnt' consider them to be in place for the benefit of the community.

My neighbor went down to El Salvador with 100 other people (local LDS) and built a few homes for charity just last month. Does that count?

But you're talking about a very narrow view of service.

I've read dozens of Mormon good will pieces done by media outside of Utah. I'm told frequently by non-LDS outside of Utah that LDS are known for being charitable and service-oriented. We are do-gooders and everyone knows us that way.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

My neighbor went down to El Salvador with 100 other people (local LDS) and built a few homes for charity just last month. Does that count?

But you're talking about a very narrow view of service.

I've read dozens of Mormon good will pieces done by media outside of Utah. I'm told frequently by non-LDS outside of Utah that LDS are known for being charitable and service-oriented. We are do-gooders and everyone knows us that way.

About this El Salvador thing: was it officially sponsored by the church? Or was it the case of many members getting together in a non-official way? Was it done through another agency that organized it? If so, who was backing this agency? Was it a church?

As an example, I worked a little bit with an organization that worked closely with a church in ongoing yearly or multi-yearly charitable efforts in a 3rd world country. This wasn't a national church, it was a local church.

We are do-gooders, yes. Unfortunately we think we do more good than anyone else. And it isn't true.

When all the Katrina stuff hit, after a good amount of time, the stake got involved because the Red Cross had run out of manpower, (this was a good couple weeks into the crisis). You should have heard our fast and testimony meeting, it was like Rameumpton. I had to chuckle, because as part of joining my work's effort, I had seen the effort from Day 1, and I saw the churches that were THERE and ORGANIZED and getting the work done. So I chuckled at the notion that we were the one true church doing the good work, when in fact it was nothing more than an after-thought mop-up effort.

Trust me, Jay, you just won't understand until you see what others are doing. I certainly didn't get it.

[MikeWaters]

Jay, the way the church is set up, we don't have the time or interest to be involved in such community efforts. We don't pay for preachers, administrators, youth counselors, music directors. These full-time jobs are staffed by part-time untrained folks. In the equation of battling diarrhea in El Salvador, or fighting homelessness in Dallas, or fighting drug abuse in Los Angeles, we will always choose something that is more in line with the three-fold mission of the church (perfect saints, missionary work, redeem dead, provide low-cost higher education in idyllic setting where young LDS can marry each other). Oh, was that four things?

I don't have a problem with this so much. I just get a little bit antsy when we claim that we are the best church because we provide the most service, when the evidence is sorely lacking. We are better off telling ourselves the truth: we don't do as much local service because we don't believe it is the best use of our time and money.