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DirtyHippieUTE · 01-20-2006, 02:08 PM

I don't know how this will go down with this audience, but I'll throw it out there anyway...

Let me give you my take on homosexuality and you tell me if I'm part of the problem.

For starers, everyone has a same sex attraction to a certain degree. This is why there is such a strong bond between friends, teemmates, companions, etc... It's normal, it's natural and it's healthy.

Of all the mental/chemical influences in the human mind, sexual desire is one of the most powerful and tricky. It is a need which REALLY wants to be fulfilled and when it goes out of whack, it puts alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, etc... to shame.

Sexual desire is almost never "perfect" in the mind. Some people lack sexual desire, some people are set on overdrive. Some people take their natural same sex attraction and it develops into a same sex attraction on a sexual level. Personally, I don't feel that some/most people have any control over how this happens.

So... Are people born gay? Yes, to a certain extent.

However, one of the challenges of this life is to put the carnal man beneath our feet. It doesn't matter whether it is same sex attraction, an attraction to porn or an attraction to your secretary, we have to put those desires in check.

I think it is 100% possible for someone to have a sexual attraction to the same sex and be a faithful member of the LDS church. As a matter of fact, I know at least two.

I don't know if this is where I'm wrong, but I just don't see a homosexual desire as anything different from a wandering heterosexual desire or a desire to look at porn. The man who feels a sexual attraction for another man is no "worse" than the man who feels a sexual attraction for someone other than his wife.

The fact of the matter is, the carnal man must be subjected to the spirit. If that means I have to overcome a sexual desire to be with other men, other women, or whatever (use your imagination), then that's what I have to do.

Homosexuality isn't a sickness, it's a desire like any other. The goal of life isn't to subject ourselves to our desires, it is to subject ourselves to the will of the Lord and to allow him to help us get thru life in spite of our desires.

Indy Coug · 01-20-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

I don't know how this will go down with this audience, but I'll throw it out there anyway...

Let me give you my take on homosexuality and you tell me if I'm part of the problem.

For starers, everyone has a same sex attraction to a certain degree. This is why there is such a strong bond between friends, teemmates, companions, etc... It's normal, it's natural and it's healthy.

Of all the mental/chemical influences in the human mind, sexual desire is one of the most powerful and tricky. It is a need which REALLY wants to be fulfilled and when it goes out of whack, it puts alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, etc... to shame.

Sexual desire is almost never "perfect" in the mind. Some people lack sexual desire, some people are set on overdrive. Some people take their natural same sex attraction and it develops into a same sex attraction on a sexual level. Personally, I don't feel that some/most people have any control over how this happens.

So... Are people born gay? Yes, to a certain extent.

However, one of the challenges of this life is to put the carnal man beneath our feet. It doesn't matter whether it is same sex attraction, an attraction to porn or an attraction to your secretary, we have to put those desires in check.

I think it is 100% possible for someone to have a sexual attraction to the same sex and be a faithful member of the LDS church. As a matter of fact, I know at least two.

I don't know if this is where I'm wrong, but I just don't see a homosexual desire as anything different from a wandering heterosexual desire or a desire to look at porn. The man who feels a sexual attraction for another man is no "worse" than the man who feels a sexual attraction for someone other than his wife.

The fact of the matter is, the carnal man must be subjected to the spirit. If that means I have to overcome a sexual desire to be with other men, other women, or whatever (use your imagination), then that's what I have to do.

Homosexuality isn't a sickness, it's a desire like any other. The goal of life isn't to subject ourselves to our desires, it is to subject ourselves to the will of the Lord and to allow him to help us get thru life in spite of our desires.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post, particularly the last two paragraphs.

MikeWaters · 01-20-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

The fact of the matter is, the carnal man must be subjected to the spirit. If that means I have to overcome a sexual desire to be with other men, other women, or whatever (use your imagination), then that's what I have to do.

Homosexuality isn't a sickness, it's a desire like any other. The goal of life isn't to subject ourselves to our desires, it is to subject ourselves to the will of the Lord and to allow him to help us get thru life in spite of our desires.

The difficulty, in part, is what do you do after you have "tamed" your sexual desires? Because you are a person that still has no sexual interest in the opposite sex. Do you get married? Do you have a family?

When you take marriage and family out of the religious experience, what is that like?

The message given is "Do your best to fight against urges that are present in you, for reasons unknown. It will be tough and lonely, good luck. And remember not to call on our date night."

Robin · 01-20-2006, 02:45 PM

r.f.

DirtyHippieUTE · 01-20-2006, 04:05 PM

Here is what I have seen. Granted, this is only 2 guys and you can't hold everybody up to the same standard.

Both are as queer as a 3 dollar bill. Both acted upon their sexual urges at one point in time or another. Both are now married, active in the church and have what appear to be very happy families.

Here's the trick. Both of them married women who know that they were/are gay. Both of them have wives who do not judge but stand there to help.

The thing they recognize is that there is something they want more than they want to fulfill their sexual urges. There is no way they could "overcome" their sexual urges with plain ol' "I think I can" self control. They have in a way surrendered self control and given themselves to the Lord. By seeking something higher than their own carnal desires, they find happiness and fulfillment in that part of their lives rather than focusing on what they aren't doing.

With regard to Robin's question... I don't know. I think that there are some people who are born with an overwhelming sex drive and there isn't much they can do about it. I think that will be between them and the Lord. The thing to remember is that it is not just that one aspect of our lives which defines us. Just because I'm married and heterosexual doesn't mean I'm going to heaven. If I'm a heartless prick who preys on the poor and helpless, I have a feeling there will sodomites and adulterers who will have a lot easier time before the judgment bar than I will.

Indy Coug · 01-20-2006, 04:56 PM

Let me once again give a resounding "AMEN!" to DHU's post.

tooblue · 01-20-2006, 05:21 PM

Boy, there are some HEAVEY discussions of late to consider on this board … of all the thoughts posted, Hippy’s lie closest to the heart of my feelings on this matter.

To further expound upon his ideas I frame the issue as an understanding of love of self and love of God. I choose not to see them as separate ideals, or rather I choose not to pit one against the other, instead I endeavor to reconcile the two by accepting the atonement as the principle means of bridling my love of self while nudging me closer to God.

I recognize that such an answer is wonderfully simplistic … and I accept such simplicity as profound. I was sexually molested as a boy. I have never struggled with same sex attraction, however my adolescence was abject self-loathing misery. I often hear people express a longing to return to their teen years … there is not enough money in existence to convince me to even entertain the thought.

Homosexual and adulterous sex is an act of selfishness that gives the love of self dominion over mind, body and ultimately spirit. The human body becomes an object to be devoured. Obsession with sex rules the individual’s life and ultimately defines existence. To answer the question of ‘WHO should be the one to set an individual's life agenda’, I must place my faith in the omniscience and limitless love of my Father in Heaven … as a mortal of limited mental, physical and spiritual capacity I am ill equipped to address such obsessions on my own.

MikeWaters · 01-20-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

Here's the trick. Both of them married women who know that they were/are gay. Both of them have wives who do not judge but stand there to help.

I wonder what their sex lives are like. What would it be like to marry a lesbian who wasn't attracted to you and only agreed to sex infrequently.

Archaea · 01-20-2006, 05:34 PM

Wow tooblue, that's a heavy discussion.

I would never want to go back to my childhood, except to correct all my mistakes.

I love my parents and siblings but detested my childhood. If I had to relive my early life, I'd knock myself off. There's almost no nostalgia in me.

Fortunately, most of us don't have to deal with such horrible situations as yours though.

DirtyHippieUTE · 01-20-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

Here's the trick. Both of them married women who know that they were/are gay. Both of them have wives who do not judge but stand there to help.

I wonder what their sex lives are like. What would it be like to marry a lesbian who wasn't attracted to you and only agreed to sex infrequently.

From what I understand... It is a far more "emotional" relationship than sexual. They have kids and they are very affectionate toward each other, but I can't imagine they ever have good ol' lusty, throw down sex.

Honestly I'm not sure.

Possibly, they may have a similar arrangment as one of my friends whose wife has NO sex drive AT ALL.

While she is not in any way sexually driven, she does find joy in giving him pleasure (joy). When they have sex, it is enjoyable for her not because she's horny, but because she feels close and intimate.

I know several gay people who have very physical relationships with friends of the opposite sex. I've seen them spooning, giving backrubs, etc... I imagine that there is far more of the intimate closeness in their relationship than there is sexual intimacy.

01-20-2006, 05:34 PM	#19
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Wow tooblue, that's a heavy discussion. I would never want to go back to my childhood, except to correct all my mistakes. I love my parents and siblings but detested my childhood. If I had to relive my early life, I'd knock myself off. There's almost no nostalgia in me. Fortunately, most of us don't have to deal with such horrible situations as yours though. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

01-20-2006, 02:08 PM	#11
DirtyHippieUTE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,151	I don't know how this will go down with this audience, but I'll throw it out there anyway... Let me give you my take on homosexuality and you tell me if I'm part of the problem. For starers, everyone has a same sex attraction to a certain degree. This is why there is such a strong bond between friends, teemmates, companions, etc... It's normal, it's natural and it's healthy. Of all the mental/chemical influences in the human mind, sexual desire is one of the most powerful and tricky. It is a need which REALLY wants to be fulfilled and when it goes out of whack, it puts alcoholism, drug addiction, depression, etc... to shame. Sexual desire is almost never "perfect" in the mind. Some people lack sexual desire, some people are set on overdrive. Some people take their natural same sex attraction and it develops into a same sex attraction on a sexual level. Personally, I don't feel that some/most people have any control over how this happens. So... Are people born gay? Yes, to a certain extent. However, one of the challenges of this life is to put the carnal man beneath our feet. It doesn't matter whether it is same sex attraction, an attraction to porn or an attraction to your secretary, we have to put those desires in check. I think it is 100% possible for someone to have a sexual attraction to the same sex and be a faithful member of the LDS church. As a matter of fact, I know at least two. I don't know if this is where I'm wrong, but I just don't see a homosexual desire as anything different from a wandering heterosexual desire or a desire to look at porn. The man who feels a sexual attraction for another man is no "worse" than the man who feels a sexual attraction for someone other than his wife. The fact of the matter is, the carnal man must be subjected to the spirit. If that means I have to overcome a sexual desire to be with other men, other women, or whatever (use your imagination), then that's what I have to do. Homosexuality isn't a sickness, it's a desire like any other. The goal of life isn't to subject ourselves to our desires, it is to subject ourselves to the will of the Lord and to allow him to help us get thru life in spite of our desires.

01-20-2006, 02:45 PM	#14
Robin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 961	r.f.

01-20-2006, 04:05 PM	#15
DirtyHippieUTE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,151	Here is what I have seen. Granted, this is only 2 guys and you can't hold everybody up to the same standard. Both are as queer as a 3 dollar bill. Both acted upon their sexual urges at one point in time or another. Both are now married, active in the church and have what appear to be very happy families. Here's the trick. Both of them married women who know that they were/are gay. Both of them have wives who do not judge but stand there to help. The thing they recognize is that there is something they want more than they want to fulfill their sexual urges. There is no way they could "overcome" their sexual urges with plain ol' "I think I can" self control. They have in a way surrendered self control and given themselves to the Lord. By seeking something higher than their own carnal desires, they find happiness and fulfillment in that part of their lives rather than focusing on what they aren't doing. With regard to Robin's question... I don't know. I think that there are some people who are born with an overwhelming sex drive and there isn't much they can do about it. I think that will be between them and the Lord. The thing to remember is that it is not just that one aspect of our lives which defines us. Just because I'm married and heterosexual doesn't mean I'm going to heaven. If I'm a heartless prick who preys on the poor and helpless, I have a feeling there will sodomites and adulterers who will have a lot easier time before the judgment bar than I will.

01-20-2006, 04:56 PM	#16
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	Let me once again give a resounding "AMEN!" to DHU's post.

01-20-2006, 05:21 PM	#17
tooblue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,016	Boy, there are some HEAVEY discussions of late to consider on this board … of all the thoughts posted, Hippy’s lie closest to the heart of my feelings on this matter. To further expound upon his ideas I frame the issue as an understanding of love of self and love of God. I choose not to see them as separate ideals, or rather I choose not to pit one against the other, instead I endeavor to reconcile the two by accepting the atonement as the principle means of bridling my love of self while nudging me closer to God. I recognize that such an answer is wonderfully simplistic … and I accept such simplicity as profound. I was sexually molested as a boy. I have never struggled with same sex attraction, however my adolescence was abject self-loathing misery. I often hear people express a longing to return to their teen years … there is not enough money in existence to convince me to even entertain the thought. Homosexual and adulterous sex is an act of selfishness that gives the love of self dominion over mind, body and ultimately spirit. The human body becomes an object to be devoured. Obsession with sex rules the individual’s life and ultimately defines existence. To answer the question of ‘WHO should be the one to set an individual's life agenda’, I must place my faith in the omniscience and limitless love of my Father in Heaven … as a mortal of limited mental, physical and spiritual capacity I am ill equipped to address such obsessions on my own.