John Dehlin headed towards a Disciplinary Council - Page 4 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

ChinoCoug · 02-11-2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

David and Goliath. Seems like he is just now a couple steps removed from asking for a sip of vinegar.

That was funny.

MikeWaters · 02-12-2015, 04:50 PM

Dehlin last logged on 5 years ago.

Has Dehlin contributed anything original to Mormon thought?

I think that's why he has wrapped himself up in the feminist and gay issues, because if he didn't, what exactly would be his unique platform?

And certainly it's not unique or original to support gays and feminists.

At the end of the day, how will be be remembered? As a historian? No. As an academic? No. As an intellectual? No. Just a blogger that attracted controversy and tried to start a movement.

I actually don't know that he will be remembered.

Kate Kelly I think will be noted to have had a greater impact, because she's actually getting into doctrinal questions and history.

MikeWaters · 02-12-2015, 06:55 PM

Bycommonconsent was not pleased when Dehlin said that they don't believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2015/02/10/my-belief/

From Dehlin's facebook page:

Quote:

Yesterday in my RadioWest interview I thoughtlessly mentioned a string of blogs (such as BCC and RationalFaiths) and publications (Dialogue and Sustone) and associated them (or some of their participants) with non-historical views on the Book of Mormon. Some of these folks understandably didn't like that, and I shouldn't have done it. It was in bad form, so I apologize. It wasn't intended to do harm, but I can see why folks are annoyed. So again, I'm sorry.

John, you may not be able to see it, but you are actually different from them.

ChinoCoug · 02-12-2015, 09:18 PM

Bad form??? How about factually incorrect?

Listen to this passive-aggressive sleight of hand on Peggy Stack

Quote:

The New York Times Laurie Goodstein is the best reporter of Mormon news...period. Thorough. Accurate. Balanced. Responsible. And she reports actual news. Very grateful for her work.

Why didn't the church respond to the transcript? That would've been a slam dunk.

MikeWaters · 02-12-2015, 09:47 PM

We better give him a break. He's been under a lot of stress, and heaven knows many of us lash out under stress.

I listened to about half his RadioWest podcast, where he announced his excommunication. He didn't sound particularly bitter or angry. And I can kind of imagine myself in his shoes, just muddling along and thinking I had been railroaded.

But you know at the end of the day, if you are as influential and in the news as much as him when it comes to Mormon issues, if you are going around saying that the church isn't true, that the Book of Mormon is fiction, church leaders are wrong....the writing is on the wall. You either have to walk it back, keep it to yourself, or leave. We can argue about whether that has to be the case. Whether we can have active dissenters in the church and they can remain as members. But he had come to place where if he wasn't an active dissenter, he was very close to it. And that's what led to this present situation. At least that's my take.

ChinoCoug · 02-13-2015, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

We better give him a break. He's been under a lot of stress, and heaven knows many of us lash out under stress.

I listened to about half his RadioWest podcast, where he announced his excommunication. He didn't sound particularly bitter or angry. And I can kind of imagine myself in his shoes, just muddling along and thinking I had been railroaded.

But you know at the end of the day, if you are as influential and in the news as much as him when it comes to Mormon issues, if you are going around saying that the church isn't true, that the Book of Mormon is fiction, church leaders are wrong....the writing is on the wall. You either have to walk it back, keep it to yourself, or leave. We can argue about whether that has to be the case. Whether we can have active dissenters in the church and they can remain as members. But he had come to place where if he wasn't an active dissenter, he was very close to it. And that's what led to this present situation. At least that's my take.

I didn't watch the MSNBC interview, but I heard he was bitter during that one. In any case, I wouldn't expect him to. Narcissists live for matyrdom.

ChinoCoug · 02-13-2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Dehlin last logged on 5 years ago.

Has Dehlin contributed anything original to Mormon thought?

I think that's why he has wrapped himself up in the feminist and gay issues, because if he didn't, what exactly would be his unique platform?

And certainly it's not unique or original to support gays and feminists.

At the end of the day, how will be be remembered? As a historian? No. As an academic? No. As an intellectual? No. Just a blogger that attracted controversy and tried to start a movement.

I actually don't know that he will be remembered.

I haven't heard him originate a single idea, but he did publish a few peer-reviewed papers from his gay Mormon study. His charisma enabled him to muster a large research team to work on it. The study is awfully biased, not methodologically sound.

Quote:

Kate Kelly I think will be noted to have had a greater impact, because she's actually getting into doctrinal questions and history.

Yes, and in addition she has already moved the needle. I think she's a dufus though.

MikeWaters · 02-13-2015, 02:39 PM

Kelly is the wrong person to lead the movement.

Since she is ex'ed, she won't be leading the movement.

MikeWaters · 02-16-2015, 09:13 PM

Quote:

If you have a strong interest in partnering with me and a group of others to create resources and communities for unorthodox and post-Mormons , please message me ASAP, along with: a) a bit about your story, b) what talents/abilities you would be able to offer an initiative like this (e.g., legal skills, non-profit management, accounting, technology), and c) what types of projects or initiatives you think are most needed within your current world.
We are looking to form an early group of partners and volunteers. Thanks!

Legal? Yes.

Non-profit management? Yes, he needs that.

Accounting? Track and take care of the money. Yes, needs that.

Technology? Just throw in something generic to make it four things.

Well John my dream is to run an online sports message board where people can talk about anything they want to. I'd really like to get in on the ground floor, you know, be an "early group". I wonder if you'll let me. I promise I'll be nice and not drive everyone away.

02-12-2015, 04:50 PM	#32
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Dehlin last logged on 5 years ago. Has Dehlin contributed anything original to Mormon thought? I think that's why he has wrapped himself up in the feminist and gay issues, because if he didn't, what exactly would be his unique platform? And certainly it's not unique or original to support gays and feminists. At the end of the day, how will be be remembered? As a historian? No. As an academic? No. As an intellectual? No. Just a blogger that attracted controversy and tried to start a movement. I actually don't know that he will be remembered. Kate Kelly I think will be noted to have had a greater impact, because she's actually getting into doctrinal questions and history.

02-12-2015, 09:47 PM	#35
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	We better give him a break. He's been under a lot of stress, and heaven knows many of us lash out under stress. I listened to about half his RadioWest podcast, where he announced his excommunication. He didn't sound particularly bitter or angry. And I can kind of imagine myself in his shoes, just muddling along and thinking I had been railroaded. But you know at the end of the day, if you are as influential and in the news as much as him when it comes to Mormon issues, if you are going around saying that the church isn't true, that the Book of Mormon is fiction, church leaders are wrong....the writing is on the wall. You either have to walk it back, keep it to yourself, or leave. We can argue about whether that has to be the case. Whether we can have active dissenters in the church and they can remain as members. But he had come to place where if he wasn't an active dissenter, he was very close to it. And that's what led to this present situation. At least that's my take.

02-13-2015, 02:39 PM	#38
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Kelly is the wrong person to lead the movement. Since she is ex'ed, she won't be leading the movement.