08-27-2006, 09:20 PM | #21 | |
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Faith will always reduce down to some fundamental dogma that exists outside of universal human experience. That doesn't make it anti-intellectual... it just means that religious genius and faith-based intellectual work are more closely related to poetry and painting than they are to science. |
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08-27-2006, 10:12 PM | #22 | |
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Noah has valid access in that he lives there. What is your relationship to France? How well do you converse in French? I admit my relationship at times with French society is superficial, but it has existed for 36 years, ranging from travel, linguistics, and poetry. First point. Not all segments of any society, let along French society are sophisticated. As an example, when I served a mission in Germany, I was excited. I thought here will be a sophisticated bunch of intellectuals who understood Goethe and Lessing. For whom Kant would be commonplace. Boy was I disappointed. The average German heard about those things once in school, but had no familiarity with it. Same with the French; just because their reading of the telephone annuaire sounds cool, doesn't make it anything more than a phone book. Second, French intellectual traditions often are almost counter-intuitive. In French writing, they go bottoms up, starting with a thesis and seeking out information that merely complies with their thesis. At one time, double blind scientific studies were uncommon, or at least not required. I remember researching a case for the FTC in hair growth. The studies proposed by the scheisters were French and Finnish, non-double blind studies, basically testimonials and they passed that off as science. Third, France, as well as Germany, reject religion, not out of intellectual sophistication, but out of wealth. Education probably plays a role, but in my research a smaller role. Money plays a bigger role, usually, in religiosity. If you're needy, you think about things, but if you have no needs, you play and stop thinking about things, to state it overly simplistically. The Church has demographics as to which groups are most receptive and least receptive. The French have almost no relationship to their Church. It's very odd to be religious in French society. It's frowned upon. Mind you, I like the French, I try to understand them, but it's very awkward being French, it's awkward to work within the labyrinthian maze which is French society. It is cumbersome, but I wouldn't characterize French relations with her Church to be sophisticated. Yes, there are French intellectuals who recognize the roles her Church played, but the average French citizen has abdicated his religion and the average Frenchman is not very cultivated or sophisticated. That is the greatest myth ever perpetrated. The least receptive are the very wealthy, not the most educated. The poorest have no time either.
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08-27-2006, 10:33 PM | #23 |
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SU...this thread is a prime example of you getting your ass handed to you.
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Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'. |
08-27-2006, 10:35 PM | #24 |
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I've only met one Catholic whom I could say was at least as religiously informed as the average RM. (He is a member of Opus Dei). But that's neither here nor there.
The reasons behind religiosity and non-religiosity are complex. SU has a theory, and that's fine. But he may be hard-pressed to explain why religiosity is increasing among young Americans. That they are more religious than their predecessors. He will not be able to understand this, because he does not understand the pull of religion. It's like trying to explain The Force to Han Solo. Religiosity is wired into human beings. It is literally written into the DNA and expressed in terms of brain structure. And please SU, for the second time, do not say that I have said increasing education coincides with decreased religiosity. If I implied that, I didn't mean to. Further characterization of my words as meaning that would be nothing more than childish aggression on your part. Those that gleefully rub their hands in expectation of the downfall of religion, Christianity, and Mormonism will be disappointed. This, I can assure you. |
08-27-2006, 11:00 PM | #25 | |
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Noah strikes me as one of the more thoughtful and educated folks I've met in these parts, but his assertion which I've paraphrased above speaks for itself in its lack of insight and thoughtfulness. By the way, it's quite possible to retain chauvinistic and parochial attitudes even while living in Europe, Brodie's mother's example notwithstanding. I have a close Mormon relative who has traveled extensively in Europe. I was once at an art museum with him and an accomplished scholar in Rennaissance culture and my relative lamented that Michelangelo painted Catholic themes because the Church forced him to do it. I was embarrased.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-27-2006 at 11:08 PM. |
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08-27-2006, 11:03 PM | #26 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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08-27-2006, 11:03 PM | #27 | |
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The French reject ALL religions, unless you're a French Muslim. The immigrated Muslim retain their religiosity.
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08-27-2006, 11:07 PM | #28 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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08-27-2006, 11:12 PM | #29 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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08-27-2006, 11:21 PM | #30 | |
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You however read a sentence that does not contain your name, and say that I have put words in your mouth. Both are revealing. But neither are interesting. |
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