A MORE interesting discussion about FLDS

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by hyrum

Explanation: Wikipedia is not a reliable source, the mullahs can edit.

Read the account of Fanny Alger. Eventually she had to move away, because, according to one account. she could "no longer conceal the consequences" of her relationship with Joseph Smith. What do you think the consequence she couldn't hide was?

I don't doubt that she could have been pregnant, but it was also a public scandal that would have humiliated her, right? That's a consequence worth running from.

[splitbamboo]

Originally Posted by hyrum

Explanation: Wikipedia is not a reliable source, the mullahs can edit.

Read the account of Fanny Alger. Eventually she had to move away, because, according to one account. she could "no longer conceal the consequences" of her relationship with Joseph Smith. What do you think the consequence she couldn't hide was?

Here's what it says on the http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm page about Fanny:

Joseph kept his marriage to Fanny out of the view of the public, and his wife Emma. Chauncey Webb recounts Emma’s later discovery of the relationship: “Emma was furious, and drove the girl, who was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet, out of her house”.

Not sure what to make of that, but it does not have to mean that she was pregnant.

[Archaea]

Compton's book on it, which is the most authoritative book yet, deals with this. Without messing up the details, it became apparent that the leadership was trying to keep Fannie away from Joseph more than Joseph not wanting Fanny. I also seem to remember the ages of the young gals was not as young as the apostates would have us believe. Fanny was about 16, not exactly an old maid, but not the 14 I originally thought. I believe Compton's book also pointed out it sounded completely consensual and she died married to her next husband.

[splitbamboo]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Compton's book on it, which is the most authoritative book yet, deals with this. Without messing up the details, it became apparent that the leadership was trying to keep Fannie away from Joseph more than Joseph not wanting Fanny. I also seem to remember the ages of the young gals was not as young as the apostates would have us believe. Fanny was about 16, not exactly an old maid, but not the 14 I originally thought. I believe Compton's book also pointed out it sounded completely consensual and she died married to her next husband.

Actually I saw something on FARMS that claimed that she could well have been 18.

HC Kimball's daughter, on the other hand, was 14. But they thought that might have been because HCK wanted to be connected to the prophet and to do it before she became part of the social scene.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Compton's book on it, which is the most authoritative book yet, deals with this. Without messing up the details, it became apparent that the leadership was trying to keep Fannie away from Joseph more than Joseph not wanting Fanny. I also seem to remember the ages of the young gals was not as young as the apostates would have us believe. Fanny was about 16, not exactly an old maid, but not the 14 I originally thought. I believe Compton's book also pointed out it sounded completely consensual and she died married to her next husband.

Helen Mar Kimball was 14.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Spaz

To me, a far more interesting debate brought up by the FLDS situation is the separation of abuse from beliefs.

To help explain, I'll give a few examples of situations...


Case A: A child is taught from the time she's born that plural marriage is the way to go. When she turns 13, she's told by her parents to marry an old fugly dude in his fifties. Believing it's God's will, she does so willingly, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case B: Same as above, except that the girl decides she doesn't want to marry the fugly dude, and objects. She is forced to marry him, promptly becoming pregnant.

Case C: Same as case A, but this girl is seventeen when married.

Case D: Same as case B, except the girl is seventeen when married.



To me, cases B & D obviously represent sexual abuse. Case C obviously does not.

I'm undecided on Case A.

I'm way late on the discussion but I'm gob smacked that you have any question in your mind about whether a 13 year old girl can under any circumstances have the capacity to consent to sexual intercourse.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Helen Mar Kimball was 14.

That is true, but Compton concludes that this is an example of a dynastic marriage Joseph was truly cementing his ties to another important leader in the church. Though there is plenty of evidence he had sex with other of his wives there isn't any, as I recall, that he did with her. That doesn't mean he didn't but I know that Compton doesn't believe there was a sexual facet to that marriage.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Does Fanny Alger have surviving descendants?

It would seem improbable to me that JS would not have had sex with any of his polygamous wives.

But it also seems improbable that he would not have fathered a single child if he had sex with all or most of his wives?

Does this make sense?

I find this peculiar as well. On the one hand, we have all of the affidavits of these women saying they had sex with him. On the other hand, no children. I wonder if we are going to learn at some point, through some research and DNA testing, that there were offspring that we don't know about. So far there is just the one claim.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I find this peculiar as well. On the one hand, we have all of the affidavits of these women saying they had sex with him. On the other hand, no children. I wonder if we are going to learn at some point, through some research and DNA testing, that there were offspring that we don't know about. So far there is just the one claim.

It's just more proof that he was a prophet. He knew when they were ovulating.