My opinion on the change in the honor code

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

First off the price in the first place is significantly higher than it should be. I lived in a 2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment. We were paying nearly $1000 a month between the 4 of us in that apartment. When I moved to SLC I got a 3 bedroom house in Sugarhouse to rent for less money. The plain fact that BYU restricts the housing market available to you, significantly drives up the price of housing. I have never had it cost more to live than it did in Provo. Currently the 2 bedroom house that I am living in here in Portland, would cost less for 4 people than the apartments I had in Provo. So by my count I was at least $100 bucks a month too much in rent.

One of my apartments would consistently schedule cleaning checks around midterms and finals. This made it not worth doing the cleaning check and just taking the fee. We were then charged a cleaning fee, this cleaning was never actually done. I think it generally was an additional $25 a month we were paying for cleaning that wasn't done.

In one of my apartment's we never once used the oven, not even for a frozen pizza. No one in the apartment cooked. The month before we left we were charged for oven cleaning. When we moved out we were charged for the oven not being clean, despite the fact it was not once used since the cleaning was done.

We had a mouse die in the pipes that led to the dishwasher, and it was an area we couldn't get to unless we kind tore things out. Every time we ran the dishwasher the place would stink. We informed the landlord multiple times about this problem and he refused to do anything. Also the heater when turned on would put out a stench and a little black smoke, so we couldn't use the heater (not that we really needed it often). We also informed the landlord about this and nothing was done about. We didn't have any of this fixed until we decided to withhold our rent. We finally got it fixed, but we were still charged late fees for our rent for that month.

There was a problem in the complex that caused all the ground floor apartments to have the toilets back up. Luckily it didn't involve any sewage. The apartment's solution to this was to come in take out the carpet and leave the floor bare for the last month we lived there.

So between non-existent cleaning fees, ridiculously high rent because of BYU's policy, and all the shit I put up with. Yes I would say that we were getting screwed by the policy, and I consider the money it cost me in increased rent prices to be at least $2,000 (and that is a conservative estimate).

So, based on what you're saying, you would expect to see BYU non-approved housing right next to BYU approved housing that rents for much cheaper amount with much more customer-friendly practices? Sorry, not true.

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by mpfunk

First off the price in the first place is significantly higher than it should be. I lived in a 2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment. We were paying nearly $1000 a month between the 4 of us in that apartment. When I moved to SLC I got a 3 bedroom house in Sugarhouse to rent for less money. The plain fact that BYU restricts the housing market available to you, significantly drives up the price of housing. I have never had it cost more to live than it did in Provo. Currently the 2 bedroom house that I am living in here in Portland, would cost less for 4 people than the apartments I had in Provo. So by my count I was at least $100 bucks a month too much in rent.

One of my apartments would consistently schedule cleaning checks around midterms and finals. This made it not worth doing the cleaning check and just taking the fee. We were then charged a cleaning fee, this cleaning was never actually done. I think it generally was an additional $25 a month we were paying for cleaning that wasn't done.

In one of my apartment's we never once used the oven, not even for a frozen pizza. No one in the apartment cooked. The month before we left we were charged for oven cleaning. When we moved out we were charged for the oven not being clean, despite the fact it was not once used since the cleaning was done.

We had a mouse die in the pipes that led to the dishwasher, and it was an area we couldn't get to unless we kind tore things out. Every time we ran the dishwasher the place would stink. We informed the landlord multiple times about this problem and he refused to do anything. Also the heater when turned on would put out a stench and a little black smoke, so we couldn't use the heater (not that we really needed it often). We also informed the landlord about this and nothing was done about. We didn't have any of this fixed until we decided to withhold our rent. We finally got it fixed, but we were still charged late fees for our rent for that month.

There was a problem in the complex that caused all the ground floor apartments to have the toilets back up. Luckily it didn't involve any sewage. The apartment's solution to this was to come in take out the carpet and leave the floor bare for the last month we lived there.

So between non-existent cleaning fees, ridiculously high rent because of BYU's policy, and all the shit I put up with. Yes I would say that we were getting screwed by the policy, and I consider the money it cost me in increased rent prices to be at least $2,000 (and that is a conservative estimate).

I'm going to have to agree with Funk on this one. I got screwed over by BYU-approved housing my senior year. A little mix-up left me without a place to live two weeks before Fall semester. I was scrambling to find a BYU-approved place to live. I had the opportunity live with some friends in non-approved housing, but that would require that I lied about my residence to BYU. I decided to "take the high road," and I kept looking for a place to live. I managed to get what must have been the last women's contract left just days before the semester started. It was a piece trash apartment, pretty far from campus and I ended up with potluck roommates. Two of them literally wallowed in their own filth.

In retrospect, I should have just lived with my friends in the non-approved housing. (I think it was short a desk or something. I am not totally sure why it wasn't approved.) I was 21 years old, almost graduated and engaged. Surely, I was grown up enough to make my own decisions about my living environment.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by marsupial

I'm going to have to agree with Funk on this one. I got screwed over by BYU-approved housing my senior year. A little mix-up left me without a place to live two weeks before Fall semester. I was scrambling to find a BYU-approved place to live. I had the opportunity live with some friends in non-approved housing, but that would require that I lied about my residence to BYU. I decided to "take the high road," and I kept looking for a place to live. I managed to get what must have been the last women's contract left just days before the semester started. It was a piece trash apartment, pretty far from campus and I ended up with potluck roommates. Two of them literally wallowed in their own filth.

In retrospect, I should have just lived with my friends in the non-approved housing. (I think it was short a desk or something. I am not totally sure why it wasn't approved.) I was 21 years old, almost graduated and engaged. Surely, I was grown up enough to make my own decisions about my living environment.

This is a more understandable problem. The timing can nail you with BYU housing because instead of openings coming up all through the year, they're all timed around beginning and end of semesters.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by jay santos

So, based on what you're saying, you would expect to see BYU non-approved housing right next to BYU approved housing that rents for much cheaper amount with much more customer-friendly practices? Sorry, not true.

Well I would rather pay less money and have a terrible landlord than pay more money for the same situation. I have a renter since I graduated from BYU living in two different cities and 5 different apartments or houses. BYU housing was by far the worse and the most expensive.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by jay santos

So, based on what you're saying, you would expect to see BYU non-approved housing right next to BYU approved housing that rents for much cheaper amount with much more customer-friendly practices? Sorry, not true.

Jay, I haven't lived in Utah since '95 but here's what I remember. I lived in a 6 man apartment in which the landlord was clearing nearly $900/mo.. After I got married and no longer required approved housing, I rented a 2 bedroom for $425/mo. It was much nicer than any of the approved apartments I lived in and, per bedroom, much cheaper. No cleaning checks etc... that were required in my approved housing.

[mpfunk]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Jay, I haven't lived in Utah since '95 but here's what I remember. I lived in a 6 man apartment in which the landlord was clearing nearly $900/mo.. After I got married and no longer required approved housing, I rented a 2 bedroom for $425/mo. It was much nicer than any of the approved apartments I lived in and, per bedroom, much cheaper. No cleaning checks etc... that were required in my approved housing.

It was probably also only a three bedroom apartment, where you had to share a room with someone else. Also I remember the one place that I had the most problems with, required each of us to pay a $250 deposit, so the total deposit on the apartment was $1,000. The house I rented in SLC didn't even have a 1K deposit.

[marsupial]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Jay, I haven't lived in Utah since '95 but here's what I remember. I lived in a 6 man apartment in which the landlord was clearing nearly $900/mo.. After I got married and no longer required approved housing, I rented a 2 bedroom for $425/mo. It was much nicer than any of the approved apartments I lived in and, per bedroom, much cheaper. No cleaning checks etc... that were required in my approved housing.

The landlord of that piece of trash apartment I mentioned above was getting $1,000 a month--$250 each--for a junky two bedroom apartment. That is what I am paying now for a three bedroom house in Dallas, close to 10 years later.

It's a sweet situation for the property owners, that's for sure. But what's in it for the students?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Jay, I haven't lived in Utah since '95 but here's what I remember. I lived in a 6 man apartment in which the landlord was clearing nearly $900/mo.. After I got married and no longer required approved housing, I rented a 2 bedroom for $425/mo. It was much nicer than any of the approved apartments I lived in and, per bedroom, much cheaper. No cleaning checks etc... that were required in my approved housing.

Was it as close to campus? If a landlord had a property exactly the same as a BYU approved apartment located right next door and could screw BYU students out of an extra hundred a month, wouldn't he get his housing approved through BYU? I've owned BYU approved property that was close to campus, and I've rented out a house across town and didn't bother to get it BYU approved because it wouldn't have brought any more $$. I don't think the folks that are blaming BYU for the housing market understand the economics of the market.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Was it as close to campus? If a landlord had a property exactly the same as a BYU approved apartment located right next door and could screw BYU students out of an extra hundred a month, wouldn't he get his housing approved through BYU? I've owned BYU approved property that was close to campus, and I've rented out a house across town and didn't bother to get it BYU approved because it wouldn't have brought any more $$. I don't think the folks that are blaming BYU for the housing market understand the economics of the market.

No, it was not as close to campus. I understand what you're saying and it makes sense. But to me this is the difference: the approved housing rule creates a bedroom shortage (I think. You may have numbers that prove otherwise) that is solved by renting out apartments by the bed, usually stacking two in a room. This results in overcrowded apartments and inflated monthly rents (when considered as a whole) contrasted with non-approved housing.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

No, it was not as close to campus. I understand what you're saying and it makes sense. But to me this is the difference: the approved housing rule creates a bedroom shortage (I think. You may have numbers that prove otherwise) that is solved by renting out apartments by the bed, usually stacking two in a room. This results in overcrowded apartments and inflated monthly rents (when considered as a whole) contrasted with non-approved housing.

I don't agree. I think the desire for students to be close to campus and the willingness to pay $100 extra a month to be within walking distance of campus compared to being a mile from campus is what creates that shortage.