Mormon tribalism has never been weaker

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by hyrum

What if he turned out to be a flip-flopper on Mormonism, too? He said it was the religion of "his father" which wasn't the strongest statement of faith, er, "testimony" in your lexicon.

that's possible. although given that he was a stake president, I would bet against it.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

BTW Mike, a major defect in your characterization of JS is that he was anything but confident and unapologetic about polygamy. He practiced it in secret but then lied about it in public. Adamantly. That's one of the things that always bugged me about whole episode. If it truly was a commandment from God, why not publish the revelation and be open about it? Why all the secrecy and lying?

You really should nut it up and finish the last 200 pages of Rough Stone Rolling. You might be a little less mullah-ish about polygamy.

I've been following this discussion and others. I'm anxiously awaiting MikeWaters' response to this post.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Don't speak too fast young man.

After my BiL and SiL had moved into a new neighborhood in Chattanooga they put up their Virgin Mary statue in the front yard. A couple of weeks later they came home from Mass, and pulled into the driveway. From across the street comes the father of their neighbor, smiling all the way. He hails my BiL, shakes his hand, points to the statue and declares that "because of that, you all are going to hell." He smiled the whole time.

The neighbors were also weary about a letting their kids play with my nieces.

Welcome to Huckabee's world.

Well there is a major concrete difference. I don't see any mormon family doing that. They would come over with a smile and cookies. They would treat the family great. They would only stop letting their kids play with your BIL kids after they were sure they weren't going to convert.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Well there is a major concrete difference. I don't see any mormon family doing that. They would come over with a smile and cookies. They would treat the family great. They would only stop letting their kids play with your BIL kids after they were sure they weren't going to convert.

Things sure have changed there in Utah. My mom's best friend was Catholic and my best friend growing up was not Mormon. They never joined the church despite our best efforts.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

BTW Mike, a major defect in your characterization of JS is that he was anything but confident and unapologetic about polygamy. He practiced it in secret but then lied about it in public. Adamantly. That's one of the things that always bugged me about whole episode. If it truly was a commandment from God, why not publish the revelation and be open about it? Why all the secrecy and lying?

You really should nut it up and finish the last 200 pages of Rough Stone Rolling. You might be a little less mullah-ish about polygamy.

Yes, the secrecy of polygamy was an aberration in some respects. Wasn't the temple ceremony also secret?

The difference here between JS and the modern church is that JS was doing something revolutionary on the down-low. Is the modern church doing the same? I don't think so. At least if they are, I'm not privy to it.

And certainly, post-JS and pre-manifesto, the church did not apologize about polygamy.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Things sure have changed there in Utah. My mom's best friend was Catholic and my best friend growing up was not Mormon. They never joined the church despite our best efforts.

In case you misunderstand me, I hope you realize my comment about the mormon family is a stretch. Sure it happens, but I think it doesn't happen nearly as much as it did in the 50's.

I hope the situation your brother in law had was also a stretch for evangies. Not that it didn't happen, but that it is the exception not the rule. If it is the rule, I am not impressed with the evangies understanding of being Christian.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by BYU71

In case you misunderstand me, I hope you realize my comment about the mormon family is a stretch. Sure it happens, but I think it doesn't happen nearly as much as it did in the 50's.

I hope the situation your brother in law had was also a stretch for evangies. Not that it didn't happen, but that it is the exception not the rule. If it is the rule, I am not impressed with the evangies understanding of being Christian.

Whew, my faith is restored in the Utah church.

Sadly, a significant number of Evangies are very in your face. My SiL became Born Again and spent the next two years offending every member of her family. Every conversation with my wife was some leading question on Mormonism ("So, what do you believe God is?"). She's finally toned it down.

My daughter's good friend growing up told her that she wasn't a Christian and not going to heaven. My son's school friend this year told him he needed to become Baptist. This stuff is being taught in the home.

Remember, these people travel far and wide to protest Mormon events.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Whew, my faith is restored in the Utah church.

Sadly, a significant number of Evangies are very in your face. My SiL became Born Again and spent the next two years offending every member of her family. Every conversation with my wife was some leading question on Mormonism ("So, what do you believe God is?"). She's finally toned it down.

My daughter's good friend growing up told her that she wasn't a Christian and not going to heaven. My son's school friend this year told him he needed to become Baptist. This stuff is being taught in the home.

Remember, these people travel far and wide to protest Mormon events.

That is just not right.

I will tell you something funny. I have a friend who is about 34 and Catholic. He grew up in Utah and his folks let him go to church with his friends. He tells me he remembers vividly one class where they were talking about the hereafter. The teacher said you kids should be greatful your parents were married in the Temple. You will be able to be with your parents in heaven. Tony won't be able to be with his parents because he is Catholic. He said he went home balling.

By the way, he is still Catholic, but he told me the story smiling and he has no animosity to the church.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by BYU71

That is just not right.

I will tell you something funny. I have a friend who is about 34 and Catholic. He grew up in Utah and his folks let him go to church with his friends. He tells me he remembers vividly one class where they were talking about the hereafter. The teacher said you kids should be greatful your parents were married in the Temple. You will be able to be with your parents in heaven. Tony won't be able to be with his parents because he is Catholic. He said he went home balling.

By the way, he is still Catholic, but he told me the story smiling and he has no animosity to the church.

Yeah, I wonder how many times we offended by friend's family. The kids came to all the Mormon social stuff and even to church sometimes. I kind of felt for them in the middle of all of us. Happily they took it in stride, but never joined the church. He was the nicest kid.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Yeah, I wonder how many times we offended by friend's family. The kids came to all the Mormon social stuff and even to church sometimes. I kind of felt for them in the middle of all of us. Happily they took it in stride, but never joined the church. He was the nicest kid.

I've never had one positive experience with evangelicals, but I have had with Episcopaleans, Catholics, Seventh Days, even JWs, and some mainline Prostetant Churches.

Perhaps they are the Church of the Devil. sorta tic.