To confirm or not to confirm, that is the question. - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SoonerCoug · 08-21-2007, 12:55 AM

On my mission in Russia, we had all our baptisms in a "bath house" with a pool. Apparently these "bath houses" are used for orgies by day, and for baptisms when the Mormons pay the rent. But that's beside the point.

There was a family that I baptized on Sunday evening. Immediately after the baptism, they had a little something to drink to commemorate the 40th day since their neighbor died (I think that's when the soul is supposed to go to heaven in Russian culture or something). Later that same week, the dad got plastered and beaten to a bloody pulp. I didn't find out till they showed up in Church on Sunday, 2 minutes before the meeting, waiting to be confirmed. (The family claimed that they hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for 8 months prior to baptism.)

Should these people have been confirmed as members of the Church?

One question I had was this: if they aren't confirmed now, when will they be confirmed? What is proper procedure? If we don't confirm them as members of the Church, and they want to become members later--do we wait a few weeks for confirmation or re-baptize them later if they stay off the booze?

We had an 18 year old branch president at the time, and he obviously wasn't much help. So I'm curious what you people think.

fusnik11 · 08-21-2007, 12:57 AM

My MP would have said to confirm them. Better for them to 'receive' the companionship of the HG than to tarry on by themselves.

I've never heard of re-baptizing after a little while, I thought it was a one baptism type of deal.

MikeWaters · 08-21-2007, 12:59 AM

we avoided these problems by confirming immediately after the baptism. we required one week of WoW observance to get baptized.

SoonerCoug · 08-21-2007, 12:59 AM

So for whomever votes that you should wait to see if they stay off the booze:

What if they don't stay off the booze? They are just never confirmed as members of the Church, but they have been baptized as members of the Church?

I think this is why we generally don't wait between baptism and confirmation...the ordinances should go together.

non sequitur · 08-21-2007, 03:24 AM

If they pay their tithes, let them in.

SeattleUte · 08-21-2007, 04:22 AM

To the Russians vodka is like bread. In War and Peace Tolstoy says in the same breath as describing the awful winter and physical deprivations that the soldiers endured that they also lacked vodka, like it's a horrible, unprecedented hardship. In The Brothers Karamazov Dostoyevsky decsribes characters downing a tumbler of vodka in the morning with eggs and meat not to mention at dinner like it's water or orange juice. You shouldn't have been trying to take their vodka away. That was wrong. If you're going to try to take their vodka away first erase all the blood and tears and endless suffering and failure that is Russia. It's like banning football at BYU.

SoonerCoug · 08-21-2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

To the Russians vodka is like bread. In War and Peace Tolstoy says in the same breath as describing the awful winter and physical deprivations that the soldiers endured that they also lacked vodka, like it's a horrible, unprecedented hardship. In The Brothers Karamazov Dostoyevsky decsribes characters downing a tumbler of vodka in the morning with eggs and meat not to mention at dinner like it's water or orange juice. You shouldn't have been trying to take their vodka away. That was wrong. If you're going to try to take their vodka away first erase all the blood and tears and endless suffering and failure that is Russia. It's like banning football at BYU.

I told the branch president that if we don't confirm them now, it'll never happen, so we might as well get it over with. The branch president said: "It seems to me that I shouldn't confirm them." I said: "Don't worry. We do it in Utah all the time. Plus, my stake president was an alcoholic."

(Just kidding. I didn't really tell him about my alcoholic stake president. But my stake president really was an alcoholic. He ended up in the police reports for pubic drunkenness all the time.)

Indy Coug · 08-21-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

If they pay their tithes, let them in.

Indulgences?

RC Vikings · 08-21-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

To the Russians vodka is like bread. In War and Peace Tolstoy says in the same breath as describing the awful winter and physical deprivations that the soldiers endured that they also lacked vodka, like it's a horrible, unprecedented hardship. In The Brothers Karamazov Dostoyevsky decsribes characters downing a tumbler of vodka in the morning with eggs and meat not to mention at dinner like it's water or orange juice. You shouldn't have been trying to take their vodka away. That was wrong. If you're going to try to take their vodka away first erase all the blood and tears and endless suffering and failure that is Russia. It's like banning football at BYU.

Maybe if we took the vodka away their wouldn't be so many tears, failure and endless suffering.

Have you ever noticed how the drink of choice for a country mirrors that
country personality.

Russia - Vodka hard drink for a hard life.
France - Wine a drink for lovers or as some of my friends called it "panty remover".
Australia - Beer Sports loving, good time country.
USA - Coke Fat and jacked up on sugar.

View Poll Results: Should these particular alcoholics be confirmed?
Yes, confirm them now.	11	78.57%
Don't confirm them. Wait a few weeks and see if they can stay off the booze.	2	14.29%
Don't confirm them. You might be able to re-baptize them later.	0	0%
I have no clue how to handle this scenario.	1	7.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

08-21-2007, 12:55 AM	#1
SoonerCoug Formerly known as MudPhudCoug Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Land of desolation Posts: 2,548	To confirm or not to confirm, that is the question. On my mission in Russia, we had all our baptisms in a "bath house" with a pool. Apparently these "bath houses" are used for orgies by day, and for baptisms when the Mormons pay the rent. But that's beside the point. There was a family that I baptized on Sunday evening. Immediately after the baptism, they had a little something to drink to commemorate the 40th day since their neighbor died (I think that's when the soul is supposed to go to heaven in Russian culture or something). Later that same week, the dad got plastered and beaten to a bloody pulp. I didn't find out till they showed up in Church on Sunday, 2 minutes before the meeting, waiting to be confirmed. (The family claimed that they hadn't touched a drop of alcohol for 8 months prior to baptism.) Should these people have been confirmed as members of the Church? One question I had was this: if they aren't confirmed now, when will they be confirmed? What is proper procedure? If we don't confirm them as members of the Church, and they want to become members later--do we wait a few weeks for confirmation or re-baptize them later if they stay off the booze? We had an 18 year old branch president at the time, and he obviously wasn't much help. So I'm curious what you people think. Last edited by SoonerCoug; 08-21-2007 at 01:01 AM.

08-21-2007, 03:24 AM	#5
non sequitur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,964	If they pay their tithes, let them in. __________________ ...You've been under attack for days, there's a soldier down, he's wounded, gangrene's setting in, 'Who's used all the penicillin?' 'Oh, Mark Paxson sir, he's got knob rot off of some tart.'" - Gareth Keenan

08-21-2007, 04:22 AM	#6
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	To the Russians vodka is like bread. In War and Peace Tolstoy says in the same breath as describing the awful winter and physical deprivations that the soldiers endured that they also lacked vodka, like it's a horrible, unprecedented hardship. In The Brothers Karamazov Dostoyevsky decsribes characters downing a tumbler of vodka in the morning with eggs and meat not to mention at dinner like it's water or orange juice. You shouldn't have been trying to take their vodka away. That was wrong. If you're going to try to take their vodka away first erase all the blood and tears and endless suffering and failure that is Russia. It's like banning football at BYU. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

08-21-2007, 12:57 AM	#2
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	My MP would have said to confirm them. Better for them to 'receive' the companionship of the HG than to tarry on by themselves. I've never heard of re-baptizing after a little while, I thought it was a one baptism type of deal.

08-21-2007, 12:59 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	we avoided these problems by confirming immediately after the baptism. we required one week of WoW observance to get baptized.