"I know this church is true"

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Testimony would be more uplifting more often, if people thought about the facts of circumstances giving rise to their faith, thought about what they wanted to say and expressed it as best they could, instead of trying to be part of the Joneses.

Expressions of gratitude are wonderful and usually well received.

Well-put. I certainly wouldn't be nearly as bored (and hungry) on fast sunday.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

You guys bitch about irrelevant and useless stuff.

I bitch about you guys bitching.

It's one eternal round.

You're right--testimonies are irrelevant and useless.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

For what it's worth, the old missionary discussions in German translated the "will you" commitments to "Wollen Sie" ("do you want to" or "would you") instead of the "Werden Sie" ("will you") for a similar reason.

Missionaries usually disregarded the change and used "Werden Sie" anyway.

That's because your missionaries were disobedient whereas ours were obedient. We always inquired, "Moechten Sie gerne" or "Wenn es dir gefaellt..."

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

You're right--testimonies are irrelevant and useless.

I have a copy of "War and Peace" for you.

That should keep your lips moving for a year.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

But in all seriousness, I know that certain aspects of the Church are true...

So too the Communist manifesto.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Nice thread, ERCougar.

I think people tend to say "I know" when they really mean "I strongly believe". And they tend to repeat certain phrases and expressions because it is easy and comfortable to adopt the "group speak" rather than put too much thought into how things will be expressed. It doesn't bother me much.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Nice thread, ERCougar.

I think people tend to say "I know" when they really mean "I strongly believe". And they tend to repeat certain phrases and expressions because it is easy and comfortable to adopt the "group speak" rather than put too much thought into how things will be expressed. It doesn't bother me much.

I've thought a little more about this now, and I think this very aspect is a major reason why it bothers me. It's the "group speak" mentality, combined with wanting to appear strong and/or not wanting to appear spiritually weak. IMO, this is a major flaw in mormon culture, and can lead to huge problems. When you don't own up to your weaknesses, you instead hide them and never address them. I think it may be a root to our problems with pornography, for instance.

This is probably not unique to Mormon culture, but more likely just human nature. But that doesn't make it right or OK.

[BYU71]

Do you think terrorists who kill themselves "know" they will be met with 99 (or whatever the number is) virgins?

There are reasons one would give their life for something. I just can't believe they do it for the 99 virgins. How about those religious types that commit mass suicide. Do they really know something or do they just have misguided faith.

One thing I do believe. The "I know" the church is true statement does not lead people to harmful conclusions or results as the examples given above.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

I've thought a little more about this now, and I think this very aspect is a major reason why it bothers me. It's the "group speak" mentality, combined with wanting to appear strong and/or not wanting to appear spiritually weak. IMO, this is a major flaw in mormon culture, and can lead to huge problems. When you don't own up to your weaknesses, you instead hide them and never address them. I think it may be a root to our problems with pornography, for instance.

This is probably not unique to Mormon culture, but more likely just human nature. But that doesn't make it right or OK.

I don't get the problem here. EVeryone has a different way of approaching their own behavior and beliefs. If you live a life of navel-gazing, as most of us here seem to do, then I understand why you might want to parse your words on this topic very carefully. OTOH, some people just won't think baout it that much and will nto care about the (to them) nuance. Others need the comfort of the group think. SO what? WHy do you care about this on their behalf? It is not a problem unique to mormon culture. In fact, it is not a problem at all. Have you ever recited the pledge of allegiance? Pure group think.

I am not suggesting that you shouldn't think abotu this and decide very carefullly how you are going to give your testimony. In fact, I tend to agree with you and am very careful how I state my testimony when I give it. WHat I don't get is why you think that your experience and position here justifies a conclusion hat Mormon culture is somehow flawed on this point. You wouldn't want anyone spekaing for you, so don't speak for them.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I tell people what I believe. Frankly, I think the scriptures speak to the strength of those who don't "see" "and yet have believed." (John 21)

I have firm belief that someday I will know as I am known. (1 Cor. 13)

I trust in the Lord. He'll deliver those who love him. (Psalm 91)