Americans views of Mormons Gallup poll - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 03-02-2007, 07:53 PM

I think you are seeing the ghost of ETB in these numbers, in that he influenced a far-right trend in the church, leading to disproportionate affiliation with the GOP.

Hence the people that dislike Mormonism the most: liberals.

And let's not pretend that all liberals care about is abortion and gay rights.

SeattleUte · 03-02-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think you are seeing the ghost of ETB in these numbers, in that he influenced a far-right trend in the church, leading to disproportionate affiliation with the GOP.

This is crap. ETB didn't make Mormons conservative. ETB was a good son. If my view of Mormons is based on some pre 1980 paleo Mormon culture as Lebewski contends Waters is even more deluded about his people in the opposite direction. That seems indispensable to his faith. Mormonism is a moving target, I will admit.

Archaea · 03-02-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

This is crap. ETB didn't make Mormons conservative. ETB was a good son. If my view of Mormons is based on some pre 1980 paleo Mormon culture as Lebewski contends Waters is even more deluded about his people in the opposite direction. That seems indispensable to his faith. Mormonism is a moving target, I will admit.

Other than attack Mike and defend yourself, what did you just say?

Are you stating ETB, who was way out there, did not paint the political culture of the Church too radically, thereby ensuring outsiders would view us negatively, given ETB's embarrassing political viewpoints, which he thankfully did not triumph as president?

DOM had to hold him in check, and thank goodness for Hugh B. Brown to counteract ETB's radical politics.

SeattleUte · 03-02-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Other than attack Mike and defend yourself, what did you just say?

Are you stating ETB, who was way out there, did not paint the political culture of the Church too radically, thereby ensuring outsiders would view us negatively, given ETB's embarrassing political viewpoints, which he thankfully did not triumph as president?

DOM had to hold him in check, and thank goodness for Hugh B. Brown to counteract ETB's radical politics.

Read Mike's post. He said ETB made Mormons conservative as they are. Yes, he was way out there but Mormonism is bred in the bone conservative. It always has been. If anything ETB had the opposite effect on Mormons.

MikeWaters · 03-02-2007, 08:32 PM

ETB caused Mormons to be less conservative?

It's nice when your opinions don't have to based in fact or argument.

What is your source this time? A book you have read. Check that, a book that you have not read, but understand, since you read a user review on amazon?

SeattleUte · 03-02-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

ETB caused Mormons to be less conservative?

It's nice when your opinions don't have to based in fact or argument.

What is your source this time? A book you have read. Check that, a book that you have not read, but understand, since you read a user review on amazon?

I said "if anything..." Do you understand that qualifier? Mormons are conservative for deep seeded reasons having nothing to do with ETB's term as president. You are the one who is way out there. Actually, I knew many people who feared the prospect of his presidency and were presently surprised by how much he had moderated by the time he took the helm.

Can you cite one example of ETB taking radical positions as President of the Mormon Church? You can't. I guarantee it.

By the way, he came to my mission and spoke for an hour or so and as a ZL I shook his hand and met him. He was a sweet easy going old man who just talked about missionary work and also had some sweet things to say about his wife and family. If you want an erascible extremist while in Mormon higher office it was Mark E. Peterson but he wasn't that influential.

As a rule I don't read whole books on Mormonism. They don't hold my interest. There isn't much there there and I "get it." I get the yin and I get the yang. Mormons are most interesting as a piece of the overall mosaic; the minutia is not interesting.

UtahDan · 03-02-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Read Mike's post. He said ETB made Mormons conservative as they are. Yes, he was way out there but Mormonism is bred in the bone conservative. It always has been. If anything ETB had the opposite effect on Mormons.

I think you're wrong here. While Mormons are conservative to ultra conservative as a whole, having an ULTRA conservative in charge makes the church a much safer place for those views. It causes them to enter the main stream of thought. I remember being a freshman at BYU in 1993 and one of my hall-mates trying to convince me that the John Birch society was tacitly endorsed by the church because of ETB's former affiliation. He was young and dumb, but he believed it. Anecdotal I know, but my point is that having a leader that far on the right gave his view point fertilizer and a lot of room to grow that it would not ahve had otherwise. If what you are saying is that the membership didn;t need much of a nudge to head that direction then I can argee with that.

SeattleUte · 03-02-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I think you're wrong here. While Mormons are conservative to ultra conservative as a whole, having an ULTRA conservative in charge makes the church a much safer place for those views. It causes them to enter the main stream of thought. I remember being a freshman at BYU in 1993 and one of my hall-mates trying to convince me that the John Birch society was tacitly endorsed by the church because of ETB's former affiliation. He was young and dumb, but he believed it. Anecdotal I know, but my point is that having a leader that far on the right gave his view point fertilizer and a lot of room to grow that it would not ahve had otherwise. If what you are saying is that the membership didn;t need much of a nudge to head that direction then I can argee with that.

They are conservative to ultra conservative at a cellular level and you know it. Do you think I hold that against them by the way? By and large absolutely not.

MikeWaters · 03-02-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

They are conservative to ultra conservative at a cellular level and you know it. Do you think I hold that against them by the way? By and large absolutely not.

You are saying that ETB pushed Mormons towards liberalism? That's what you suggested.

I have to say that I see no evidence for your argument.

SeattleUte · 03-02-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

You are saying that ETB pushed Mormons towards liberalism? That's what you suggested.

I have to say that I see no evidence for your argument.

you've admitted defeat.

03-02-2007, 07:53 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I think you are seeing the ghost of ETB in these numbers, in that he influenced a far-right trend in the church, leading to disproportionate affiliation with the GOP. Hence the people that dislike Mormonism the most: liberals. And let's not pretend that all liberals care about is abortion and gay rights.

03-02-2007, 08:32 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	ETB caused Mormons to be less conservative? It's nice when your opinions don't have to based in fact or argument. What is your source this time? A book you have read. Check that, a book that you have not read, but understand, since you read a user review on amazon?