Tonga Ruled Ineligible

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Adam

If I have to choose to give football scholarships between your son, if your son is a felon and a academic failure, and another kid who isn't quite as fast or strong but honorable and clean, then you should fear your son won't get the football scholarship from me.

To assume that I wouldn't love your kid with great patience if he were my stewardship in another capacity is unwarranted and unjustified.

It's entirely warranted. The fact that you're capable of making the massive logical leap required to betray your base ideals in this instance shows exactly how bad an influence you would be on my kid.

For me, whether I feel my kid deserves a second chance with his scholarship would depend entirely upon what mistakes he made. NONE of the mistakes you're harping on would qualify. Interestingly, Mantangi's mistake WOULD qualify - and look what happened to him.

You are, truly, a pharisee. I'm done debating this. You're wrong, I've shown it clearly, and you have failed to put forth an even semi-logical counter argument.

[cougjunkie]

I think I just figured it out, Adam is pissed that he didnt secure the Polynesian vote during his election.

[TripletDaddy]

The real question for Adam: if Tonga could now show you a current temple recommend, would you let him stay in your apartment?

[jay santos]

I don't have much to add here, as you guys are doing a good job putting Adam in his place as a self-righteous, hypocritical, legalistic, mullah a-hole (only on this issue, Adam--nothing personal). But I'll add a few points.

1. Adam, you scream for grace for the "apostates", yet you show zero grace in this situation. Bad form.

2. It's nearly impossible to screen out the bad apples. What's the difference between Curtis Brown and B.J. Mathis pre-BYU? Both are black, non-LDS and both are known as good Christians with good character. Curtis becomes a locker room giant and spiritual leader, the other leads the action in the darkest day of BYU sports history.

3. With guys on the team involved in sex, drinking, etc. and the coaches trying their best to keep things out of the papers, how do you choose an RM, temple marriage guy whose greatest crime is some traffic issues to pick on????

4. You're completely full of crap with your rather win with boy scouts than lose with thugs comment. If you're selecting Manase as your criteria for thug, you kick out half the team, and you're stuck recruiting two star athletes from Utah and slowly reach DII status over a period of time. You'll take one extra loss to kick out anyone Manase level or lower "worthiness". Good luck. More like five losses + dried up recruiting leading to 12 losses over time.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The real question for Adam: if Tonga could now show you a current temple recommend, would you let him stay in your apartment?

Please, even I know there are higher moral standings than having a Temple Recommmend.

For instance, a BYU student in good standing you can count on being of higher moral standing than just your regular ole Temple Recommend holder.

[myboynoah]

Adam isn't even a sports fan. He should be limited to the non-sports categories.

[cougjunkie]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Please, even I know there are higher moral standings than having a Temple Recommmend.

For instance, a BYU student in good standing you can count on being of higher moral standing than just your regular ole Temple Recommend holder.

A BYU student that plays football on a scholarship with a temple recommend is one step from translation.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Adam

I stand by my statement that sometimes Tonga wasn't a positive influence on other players--like when he quit going to classes this last semester as a team leader--that wasn't a good example and didn't have a positive influence. Care to argue differently? Really?

I'm arguing that you're a liar and you've made no attempt to refute that, nor could you anyway so I could see why you wouldn't try.

It's not okay for Manase to make some stupid mistakes, but it's okay for Adam to be a living example of a dishonest person just so that he can manipulate his version of reality to fit his paradigms of life.

[CJF]

Originally Posted by Adam

As the YM president I could tell you which of the YM in the ward would serve missions with a greater than 90% accuracy. Any good YM president could do the same.

You spend 90% of the time with the marginal case, but rarely can you make up for what has happened in the home for the last decade.

And the one in a 100 exception is why we serve in the the church and keep trying.

But BYU Football isn't about salvation or even happiness. It is about who represents BYU to the youth and the world. Tonga and Hooks could be quite happy playing (and getting into trouble) at some other school.

You can know which kids are going to be ok and which are not with very few mistakes. The coaches are recruiting these kids for over 3 years typically. They know them pretty well. You are playing the canard here, not me.

You're the YM's president? Man, that's a scary thought. I fear for all the marginal kids in the Alpine area.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Adam

You people's continued inability to decipher the difference between handing out BYU football scholarships and other unrelated interactions is truly scaring me. I fear for our church and our country if this reasoning ability is indicative of the average Mormon or average American.

I guess the big disconnect is what you believe is the worthiness level for a BYU football scholarship.

I call it: able to pass, catch, run, block, or tackle and keep your name out of the papers

You call it: somewhere above the level of LDS temple recommend status