Big plot hole/logical absurdity in Nephi-Laban story

[SeattleUte]

Way to go Cali and Tex, you brought this thread to five star status. This is priceless on so many levels.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Tex

As soon as I see these words, I know what follows will be warped.

I never gave an opinion on whether the Spirit spoke literal words or otherwise. I simply found your conclusion (that Nephi made up his own mind, with a subsequent spiritual confirmation) interesting given that Nephi makes the opposite clear (in my mind).

He details three different divine communications, two of which he at first resisted and the third to which he concedes. How one gets from that to Nephi drawing his own conclusion, esp. when based on English grammar, is puzzling to me.

I don't even know why I bother with you. It isn't even possible to have an honest conversation. I made a wise crack about grammar, which you have now turned into the entire focus of the thread, and when I point out how silly your position appears to be, you (as you always do) then retreat and argue that you never really had a position to begin with, despite the fact that you seem to find fault with any position other than the position which you claim to not be taking.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't even know why I bother with you.

Because you love to?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't even know why I bother with you. It isn't even possible to have an honest conversation. I made a wise crack about grammar, which you have now turned into the entire focus of the thread, and when I point out how silly your position appears to be, you (as you always do) then retreat and argue that you never really had a position to begin with, despite the fact that you seem to find fault with any position other than the position which you claim to not be taking.

Packer's cyborg for you. People start to intimate that Nephi/Laban isn't history but allegegory but still divine or some such thing and tex automatically gets a signal, his receptor sounds an internal alarm, and he's all over it, upholdng orthodoxy at every turn and automatically disavowing prior positions he has taken when caught in inconsistencies without embarrasment or explanation, just continuing to hammer away. You have to understand that while robots or humanbots are capable of greater purity and consistency and far greater information download and inexhaustible argument than us humans, they are less artful and graceful in reconciling contradictory positions taken and appreciating insoluble dilemas inherent in the human condition. I think of a robot boxer hammering away endlessly with its metal and vinyl fists and blinking red eyes.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I don't even know why I bother with you. It isn't even possible to have an honest conversation. I made a wise crack about grammar, which you have now turned into the entire focus of the thread, and when I point out how silly your position appears to be, you (as you always do) then retreat and argue that you never really had a position to begin with, despite the fact that you seem to find fault with any position other than the position which you claim to not be taking.

Whatever.

Do you even HAVE a reason for believing Nephi didn't get a specific communication, literally spoken or otherwise, from the Spirit as he says?

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Packer's cyborg for you. People start to intimate that Nephi/Laban isn't history but allegegory but still divine or some such thing and tex automatically gets a signal, his receptor sounds an internal alarm, and he's all over it, upholdng orthodoxy at every turn and automatically disavowing prior positions he has taken when caught in inconsistencies without embarrasment or explanation, just continuing to hammer away. You have to understand that while robots or humanbots are capable of greater purity and consistency and far greater information download and inexhaustible argument than us humans, they are less artful and graceful in rconciling contradictory positions taken and appreciating insoluble dilemas inherent in the human condition. I think of a robot boxer hammering away endlessly with its metal and vinyl fists.

Discussing whether Nephi/Laban is history is pointless with you. You don't believe it is. I do. We're at an absolute impasse.

[bYuPride]

WOW... You guys are among the most interesting people have the most interesting thoughts I have ever read.. I obviously don't read a lot or know too many people. ha ha... You all have brought so many ideas about Nephi's quest to get the plates than I've never thought of... and you obviously think on a MUCH different level than I. I'm going to try and read in this forum more and gain some more insight in addition to my study of different things. Please don't make fun of me when I ask Kindergarten level questions. Thank you.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Adam

My favorite: . . . like unto Moroni, satan would never have no power over the hearts of the children of men. . .

How long did it take to correct this mistake?

What if they actually meant what it said?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

So where does alegory end and factual truth begin? Is the whole trip to the Americas, clear up to the Lamanite annihilation of the Nephites, parable? What about the plates left in the hillside? Was that parable/allegory, the plates symbolizing a concept, left by someone's alter ego, the angel Moroni a symbol of something? It sounds like the makings of an interesting Sunstone article anyway.

Tex, buddy, what's your take on this?

The factual truth begins when the book is internalized and we are born again. That's the only truth that matters. Nephi/Alma/Moroni are of no use to any of us.
I don't know, nor do I care, where actual things are on the spectrum.

And yes, it is useful to wonder what things might symbolize.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by bYuPride

WOW... You guys are among the most interesting people have the most interesting thoughts I have ever read.. I obviously don't read a lot or know too many people. ha ha... You all have brought so many ideas about Nephi's quest to get the plates than I've never thought of... and you obviously think on a MUCH different level than I. I'm going to try and read in this forum more and gain some more insight in addition to my study of different things. Please don't make fun of me when I ask Kindergarten level questions. Thank you.

Kindergarten level questions are the best kind.
The genesis of wisdom is to admit you don't know anything, and start asking questions.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Brian

The factual truth begins when the book is internalized and we are born again. That's the only truth that matters. Nephi/Alma/Moroni are of no use to any of us.
I don't know, nor do I care, where actual things are on the spectrum.

And yes, it is useful to wonder what things might symbolize.

I'm looking at Brian's guy pooping avatar as I read this and don't know what to think. I bet in the entire wold only on CG do you get such an experience.