Did This SP Go Too Far?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

At what point does faith give way to common sense? I would think at some point you have to reconcile your faith with reality.

Because when I apply the doctrines and principles espoused by Joseph Smith et al, I have tangible and practical personal experience that they are valid and true. Then there's this thing called a spiritual witness, but that is of little interest to someone like yourself.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Because when I apply the doctrines and principles espoused by Joseph Smith et al, I have tangible and practical personal experience that they are valid and true. Then there's this thing called a spiritual witness, but that is of little interest to someone like yourself.

Are Mormons the only ones that receive a spiritual witness? I wouldn't be surprised if MindfulCoug had received a spiritual witness that Islam were true or that Warren Jeffs had received a spiritual witness that the FLDS church were true. Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if the people perpetrating the MMM had received a spiritual witness that what they were doing was ordained of God.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

That's true, and I don't know where the line is. For me it would not be over this. On the other hand, I have advocated being more open about these things. I think that as is true with anything, there is much more to be feared from covering up or appearing to cover up than there is to be from the truth.

I'm not arrogant enough to entirely dismiss the possibility that Joseph Smith may have been called of God. But I'm like a juror. I look at the evidence and arrive at my own personal conclusions. I may be entirely wrong, but to me, the evidence doesn't suggest that I am.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I'm not arrogant enough to entirely dismiss the possibility that Joseph Smith may have been called of God. But I'm like a juror. I look at the evidence and arrive at my own personal conclusions. I may entirely wrong, but to me, the evidence doesn't suggest that I am.

I don't personally believe that the evidence I have seen compels either conclusion. I think that it is a moral choice to believe these things. Another word for that is faith. I don't begrudge you a contrary conclusion/choice.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

Ha! I know that guy. Well, I worked with him and he would try to discuss things with me when he found out I studied Greek. The following is a true story: He carried around a Greek Concordance (it was something like strong's concordance) with each Greek word numbered. He would take a number, such as Utah's area code, 801, and look up the corresponding Greek word. In this case, word #801 was the Greek for "foolish". He told me that this meant that people in Utah were being foolish and on the wrong track. I thought he was joking at first but soon realized he was dead serious. I just avoided these types of conversations after that. But I wouldn't see the need to treat him differently than other people. I would just nod my head, and say "hmm, interesting" and change the subject. The guy speaks for himself, no need to be ostracizing him socially as far as I'm concerned. Seemed like a good but misguided guy.

Sterling has a long history of "misguidedness". If you read on his website you will find out that:

- He has thought he is one mighty and strong that is supposed to save the church in the last days
- He wrote a talk and felt that God intended him to read it (or have it read) in General Conference. He then attempted to go up to the stage during General Conference. Unlike Cody Judy, he never made it to the stage before being escorted out by security.
- He founded a home study group in Manti and eventually a number of participants in that group were excommunicated.
- He went up and bore his testimony upon moving into his new ward without informing the Bishop of the ward that he was in fact excommunicated.

In this case, I think the Church definitely has an interest in advising the members of Sterling's congregation that he was excommunicated.

I also don't believe that the Bishop/SP in Eagle mountain specifically said to avoid his family. I think Sterling has the statement that the Bishop was going to read in Sac. Meeting posted on his website and I don't remember it saying to avoid his family. Of course, I could be wrong about this last point - it's been a while since I was entertained by Sterlin's website.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Sterling has a long history of "misguidedness". If you read on his website you will find out that:

- He has thought he is one mighty and strong that is supposed to save the church in the last days
- He wrote a talk and felt that God intended him to read it (or have it read) in General Conference. He then attempted to go up to the stage during General Conference. Unlike Cody Judy, he never made it to the stage before being escorted out by security.
- He founded a home study group in Manti and eventually a number of participants in that group were excommunicated.
- He went up and bore his testimony upon moving into his new ward without informing the Bishop of the ward that he was in fact excommunicated.

In this case, I think the Church definitely has an interest in advising the members of Sterling's congregation that he was excommunicated.

I also don't believe that the Bishop/SP in Eagle mountain specifically said to avoid his family. I think Sterling has the statement that the Bishop was going to read in Sac. Meeting posted on his website and I don't remember it saying to avoid his family. Of course, I could be wrong about this last point - it's been a while since I was entertained by Sterlin's website.

I wish we wouldn't excommunicate the Sterlings of the world. He sounds entertaining. It's these types that keep me awake during F & T meeting.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Are Mormons the only ones that receive a spiritual witness? I wouldn't be surprised if MindfulCoug had received a spiritual witness that Islam were true or that Warren Jeffs had received a spiritual witness that the FLDS church were true. Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if the people perpetrating the MMM had received a spiritual witness that what they were doing was ordained of God.

Am I slow or are you indicating you are not convinced of the authenticity of folks' conflicting spiritual witnesses?

GET THE HELL OUTA HERE!

[minn_stat]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I agree that it wasn't a very good book. It did have historical tidbits in it that aren't going to be in your institute manual.

I love to read, so my wife often gives me books as gifts. For the last half dozen years or so, I've taken a liking to historical stuff, such as:
Personal Memoirs of Ulysses Grant
1776
Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage

So my wife gets me these kinds of books, or LDS books - she's a pretty toe-the-line kind of mormon, so only books that would be "approved" by your typical church leader.

So she finds "Under the Banner of Heaven" at Deseret Book, sees it is historical, and figures it must be approved if it is in Deseret Book. Perfect gift, she thinks.

So imagine my surprise when I unwrap this gift. She was pretty surprised and a bit embarassed when I told her about its contents. My wife and I still laugh about it today. I think she eventually threw it away...

I thought it wasn't too bad of a read, although it certainly had its shortcomings. Nothing too earth-shattering in it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I wish we wouldn't excommunicate the Sterlings of the world. He sounds entertaining. It's these types that keep me awake during F & T meeting.

Amen to that. I visited his website a year or so ago and this guy is a total nutjob. And fascinating at the same time.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by minn_stat

I love to read, so my wife often gives me books as gifts. For the last half dozen years or so, I've taken a liking to historical stuff, such as:
Personal Memoirs of Ulysses Grant
1776
Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage

So my wife gets me these kinds of books, or LDS books - she's a pretty toe-the-line kind of mormon, so only books that would be "approved" by your typical church leader.

So she finds "Under the Banner of Heaven" at Deseret Book, sees it is historical, and figures it must be approved if it is in Deseret Book. Perfect gift, she thinks.

So imagine my surprise when I unwrap this gift. She was pretty surprised and a bit embarassed when I told her about its contents. My wife and I still laugh about it today. I think she eventually threw it away...

I thought it wasn't too bad of a read, although it certainly had its shortcomings. Nothing too earth-shattering in it.

it wasn't poorly written per se. But I disagreed with it's conclusions, and also believe that it was poor researched. And ultimately, and most damningly, was not an honest book.