Is Seattle's version of the Church a caricature?

[Robin]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

What about those who once believed in LDS theology then chose to stop believing after deciding for themselves that LDS theology is wrong? Those that have come to their own conclusion that they know more than the God of LDS theology? Is it chauvenistic to then call it pride?

It wouldn't be very hard to teach a child to believe that the moon was made of cheese.

What does pride mean? When a person is willing to entertain the possibility that the 'facts' he has been taught since birth might be wrong, that seems to be the definition of HUMILITY (hey... this thing I have believed all my life might be wrong).

But Creekster calls it pride when someone thinks he might have been wrong. Isn't that a bit counterintuitive? Don't you think a more typical definition of pride would include the stubborn obstinance of holding to a view, come hell or high water?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Robin

It wouldn't be very hard to teach a child to believe that the moon was made of cheese.

What does pride mean? When a person is willing to entertain the possibility that the 'facts' he has been taught since birth might be wrong, that seems to be the definition of HUMILITY (hey... this thing I have believed all my life might be wrong).

But Creekster calls it pride when someone think he might have been wrong. Isn't that a bit counterintuitive? Don't you think a more typical definition of pride would include the stubborn obstinance of holding to a view, come hell or high water?

The definition of pride, in this sense, would be a rather excessive opnion of one's self, wouldn't it? In my question it is thinking one knows more than God.

Humility isn't thinking that what you were taught might be wrong - it's the condition of being humble. There may be some humility in entertaining the idea that one may be wrong, or that one's beliefs may be wrong, but in the case of apostates, there really doesn't seem to be much humility in their thinking.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

The definition of pride, in this sense, would be a rather excessive opnion of one's self, wouldn't it? In my question it is thinking one knows more than God.

Humility isn't thinking that what you were taught might be wrong - it's the condition of being humble. There may be some humility in entertaining the idea that one may be wrong, or that one's beliefs may be wrong, but in the case of apostates, there really doesn't seem to be much humility in their thinking.

I doubt any of the apostates that hang out here would have a problem accepting the word of God. Our problem is doubt, not an excessive opinion of one's self. If I feel a burning in my bossom when I read the BOM, I DOUBT my own ability to correctly interpret that as a specific message from God. I know that I have all kinds of human desire to know the truth, and I can't help but wonder if that burning is more a reflection of that desire rather than a genuine message from God.

Who has the excessive opinion of himself? The man who thinks God talks to him, or the man who is unsure he can interpret his own feelings, let alone suggest that the world would be better if everyone believed like him.

[il Padrino Ute]

Fair enough.

I suppose that I am unable to relate, as I've had personal experiences related to the Gospel as taught by the Church that I can't deny. I've found peace in it.

I still find myself questioning bits and pieces, but that is when I take it on faith that it is true. I realize that I'm not smart enough to understand everything yet I don't worry about that which I don't understand. I believe when it's time for me to understand everything, I'll be capable of understanding it.

[non sequitur]

As someone who once believed and now doesn't, I can honestly say that pride does not enter into the equation at all. In fact, to accept the eventuality that your life-long hopes are no longer realistic is the exact opposite of pride. It is resignation. People don't stop clinging to the life raft because they are too proud to be saved.

To my way of thinking, the person who convinces himself that he will be saved simply because he deserves to be saved, is the one who exhibits pride. How self-absorbed does one have to be to presume that some inexplicable supernatural force has a vested interest in presiding over their eternal well-being? Who really is the one that suffers from pride?

[il Padrino Ute]

Interesting thoughts. I appreciate you posting this, as it adds a different perspective as to why some stop believing. I've had stretches of inactivity in the Church before, but mine was based on laziness. I simply didn't want to get ready and go to church. In the end, I came to the conclusion that I was only hurting myself and I was affecting my children as well when they would state that they didn't want to go either.

Personally, I don't think I'll be saved because I deserve to be saved. I think I'll be saved if I earn salvation. Any kind of reward will be earned by what I've done and will be fair.