More homosexual discussion

[creekster]

Does this serve a purpose? Is this the Imbecilic Argument Olympics and I missed it? Give it a rest already.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've been holding back. Have you?

Way to sidestep the facts and what I just said Mike.

You started this, and then when I warned you to not get personal, you decided you wanted to anyway.

Remember?

I could care less what you really say about me on here Mike, as I'm sure you could care less about what I say about you.....well....actually I guess you do care what I say about you.

[UteStar]

I think people are born gay. That is just my opinion...wait, did I post in the wrong thread?

[Black Diamond Bay]

Wow, just wow...

[Indy Coug]

This fight is great because I can root for both sides. :P

[All-American]

I vote that cougjunkie wins this debate and we end it.

Come, gentlemen. There is no honor to be found here.

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've been holding back. Have you?

This reminds me of that scene from Princess Bride where they are sword fighting:

Inigo Montoya: You are wonderful.
Man in Black: Thank you; I've worked hard to become so.
Inigo Montoya: I admit it, you are better than I am.
Man in Black: Then why are you smiling?
Inigo Montoya: Because I know something you don't know.
Man in Black: And what is that?
Inigo Montoya: I... am not left-handed.
[Moves his sword to his right hand and gains an advantage]
Man in Black: You are amazing.
Inigo Montoya: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Man in Black: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Inigo Montoya: Tell me.
Man in Black: I'm not left-handed either.
[Moves his sword to his right hand and regains his advantage]

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Let's face it, if you are homosexually oriented to a point where you cannot maintain a heterosexual relationship, have a strong libido, what does the LDS Church have to offer?

First point, I don't believe homosexuality is binary, "you are or you aren't", but it appears to be a spectrum analysis of a complex set of orientations.

Second point, if you wish to act upon your sexuality, I can't see any reconciliation possible within the three religions of the Book. Do you want a "Don't Look, Don't Tell" policy?

My advice would probably be, and nobody is likely to ask for it, if you're certain your predominant sexual orientations are homosexual, leave and find happiness in whatever you can, but avoid religion. Find it in art, nature, and whatever.

How could I compare the restraint issue to something completely alien? Apparently, a gay can get aroused by a female, as a number have children with women, so I don't quite get it. They can but don't want to.

What do we have to offer such a person? I can't see anything.

Sorry to ignore the Rocky fight, but I think Archaea sees the issue that troubles me: the LDS church has nothing to offer a homosexual. No chance at temporal happiness, family, or real inclusion into the LDS community. It is in the family relationships that we have that we find our true happiness on earth. Does anyone really disagree with that?

We are telling homosexuals that if they want to be part of the church, they can't participate in the common goal of joy in this lifetime. They have to be patient and wait. Meanwhile, everyone around them gets to experience it (or actually seek it).

I think the question of what causes homosexuality is not important to this issue.

My point is, I don't think heterosexual LDS really appreciate the dilemma facing homosexuals. And frankly, until something changes, they're either going to leave the church or commit suicide. There really are no other palatable options for them.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Sorry to ignore the Rocky fight, but I think Archaea sees the issue that troubles me: the LDS church has nothing to offer a homosexual. No chance at temporal happiness, family, or real inclusion into the LDS community. It is in the family relationships that we have that we find our true happiness on earth. Does anyone really disagree with that?

We are telling homosexuals that if they want to be part of the church, they can't participate in the common goal of joy in this lifetime. They have to be patient and wait. Meanwhile, everyone around them gets to experience it (or actually seek it).

I think the question of what causes homosexuality is not important to this issue.

My point is, I don't think heterosexual LDS really appreciate the dilemma facing homosexuals. And frankly, until something changes, they're either going to leave the church or commit suicide. There really are no other palatable options for them.

Can you find a way to reconcile our understanding of the Cosmos and Homosexuality?

We have the historical tradition of simply ignoring it, a la the Primary Presidency of Louise Felt and Mae Anderson, or Heber J. Grant's meeting with a BYU student, but that really didn't address the issue.

I agree with your general characterization that we have it difficult to understand, though I offer there are other discreet groups who may experience similar distress, the homely persons with no chance of marriage, the marriage with the completely frigid partner, the person with dysfunctional genetalia and so forth. So gays are not alone, but that doesn't make their plight easier.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Can you find a way to reconcile our understanding of the Cosmos and Homosexuality?

We have the historical tradition of simply ignoring it, a la the Primary Presidency of Louise Felt and Mae Anderson, or Heber J. Grant's meeting with a BYU student, but that really didn't address the issue.

I agree with your general characterization that we have it difficult to understand, though I offer there are other discreet groups who may experience similar distress, the homely persons with no chance of marriage, the marriage with the completely frigid partner, the person with dysfunctional genetalia and so forth. So gays are not alone, but that doesn't make their plight easier.

That's true. I have a friend that literally has not been asked out on a date in 8 or 9 years. I don't see her challenges in life as being all that much different than being gay, with the notable exception (that ironically she pointed out to me) that at least the other single women in the church do not ostracize her like many of the single men do with the guys they suspect are gay.