The Vietnamese Napalm girl

[Archaea]

[quote=mindfulcoug;
with referring to your description about the secular government ..i think it might be fair to reach out to this conclusion that , "you wouldnot mind to have some faithless/unprincipled law makers and unscrupulous law executors who would oftenly lie to people and mess up with thier lives, as long as they bring you money and power ".

Thanks for guiding me welcome the concept.[/quote]

You really haven't understood me, and I don't know how to bridge the gap.

You assume a person without faith is necessarily dishonest. That is not true. There are other models of honesty.

If I wish to work with FFTs, I don't have to go back to the initial concepts of Newtonian or Leibniz's concepts of calculus.

Even in your government, your politics are about money and power, you fail to recognize this.

No, current legislatures do not look at origins only look at the current moment.

It is naive to believe any political movement is about anything other than power and money, any where that man exists.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You really haven't understood me, and I don't know how to bridge the gap.

You assume a person without faith is necessarily dishonest. That is not true. There are other models of honesty.

If I wish to work with FFTs, I don't have to go back to the initial concepts of Newtonian or Leibniz's concepts of calculus.

Even in your government, your politics are about money and power, you fail to recognize this.

No, current legislatures do not look at origins only look at the current moment.

It is naive to believe any political movement is about anything other than power and money, any where that man exists.

I amnot saying that shaky religious person is necessarily dishonest ,i am just saying that in your sort of government, you wouldnot mind having those shady peopel as decision making.. ( this is going to fill the gap quite well.)

of course our government is into providing money and power and injecting them to the society ..but it is also at the same time would strengthen people's spiritual ability ,becuase we believe its people right to have a healthy/honest governers/law makers who would serve people with thier healthy minds and souls .

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

I amnot saying that shaky religious person is necessarily dishonest ,i am just saying that in your sort of government, you wouldnot mind having those shady peopel as decision making.. ( this is going to fill the gap quite well.)

I believe that any person who seeks power of government will necessarily be of questionable character, in our government or in your government. Power seekers have in and of themselves flaws in their character. Your response has shown you do NOT understand my words.

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

of course our government is into providing money and power and injecting them to the society ..but it is also at the same time would strengthen people's spiritual ability ,becuase we believe its people right to have a healthy/honest governers/law makers who would serve people with thier healthy minds and souls .

There is no proof being an ayatollah makes one a good person. We believe NOT that a person's character is important in a public office, but that a person's skill in making laws be good. That is a difficult distinction for you to understand.

There are good people who do not know how to make good laws. And there are bad people who know how to make good laws.

Just like there are good people who do not know how to make a good car, but bad people who know how to make a good car.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I believe that any person who seeks power of government will necessarily be of questionable character, in our government or in your government. Power seekers have in and of themselves flaws in their character. Your response has shown you do NOT understand my words.

Completely correct ....while there is no need to put a lot of energy to understand this simple/obvious image ,but on the othere hand ..there is a very sharp line between those who are being in a questionable positions and care about providing honest answers with those who are being in questionable postions and would not mind providing dishonest answers...you are saying that non-religious/shady person might provide honest answers and i am saying that i would prefer to have the answer given by true beleivers. i suppose this is where we probably have some issues with ,otherwise we are quite close.

There is no proof being an ayatollah makes one a good person. We believe NOT that a person's character is important in a public office, but that a person's skill in making laws be good. That is a difficult distinction for you to understand.

There are good people who do not know how to make good laws. And there are bad people who know how to make good laws.

Just like there are good people who do not know how to make a good car, but bad people who know how to make a good car.

being an ayatollah doesnt automatically make you an angel ..i agree ..but in islamic theocracy we are greatly endeavoring to provide and educate individulas who are good at thier *faith*AND thier *profession* ,BOTH.

this is our slogan "motekhases va moteahed" (in case you might like to know the farsi expression) from the very first days after islamic revolution which means our country will welcome to honest professionals who are honored to supply the islamic society with the best intention and knowledge.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

Completely correct ....while there is no need to put a lot of energy to understand this simple/obvious image ,but on the othere hand ..there is a very sharp line between those who are being in a questionable positions and care about providing honest answers with those who are being in questionable postions and would not mind providing dishonest answers...you are saying that non-religious/shady person might provide honest answers and i am saying that i would prefer to have the answer given by true beleivers. i suppose this is where we probably have some issues with ,otherwise we are quite close.



being an ayatollah doesnt automatically make you an angel ..i agree ..but in islamic theocracy we are greatly endeavoring to provide and educate individulas who are good at thier *faith*AND thier *profession* ,BOTH.

this is our slogan "motekhases va moteahed" (in case you might like to know the farsi expression) from the very first days after islamic revolution which means our country will welcome to honest professionals who are honored to supply the islamic society with the best intention and knowledge.

Why do you equate a nonreligious person with a person who is shady or dishonest?

That is offensive in my mind. I've known many religious persons who are bad people and known many nonreligious people who are good people. Those terms are NOT synonymous.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Why do you equate a nonreligious person with a person who is shady or dishonest?

That is offensive in my mind. I've known many religious persons who are bad people and known many nonreligious people who are good people. Those terms are NOT synonymous.

of course they arenot synonymous ..i wonder what made you think they are. something wrong with my post or with your understanding ???

for the sake of bright conversation i am going to explain here why you should not jump to this offensive upshot ...

since in islam we basically dont have such prospective toward human in this specific case..we believe that being a moral person almost has nothing to do with being religious ..Thanks to wise ,loving God," man " has been equipped with such instruments that truly convey him toward goods and prevent him from evil . so you can be an atheist and still care about moral.. no inconsistency whatsoever!

but accepting a religion is a further step of being moral methinks...thats why in islam we wouldnot aknowledge such a thing as "dishonest believer" plainly becuase with practicing a true religion , an (already) moral person is going to profit the religion in discovering new realms in the perfection path ahead.

thereupon if we are witnessed of a devotee who is deshonest and knavish
there will be serious concern/issue with his belief system or his religion ,that wouldnot allow us to include him in the same category as his religious peers ,any more.
unless he adjusts his deeds to what he has been attached .