The dialogue in Job - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

BarbaraGordon · 02-01-2009, 03:01 AM

The narrative of Job is a fascinating story for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is the celestial dialogue that opens the book. Now, I don't believe the dialogue (or the story, for that matter) is intended to be taken literally -- I believe the dialogue was added for rhetorical effect. But I used to take it literally, and when taken as such, it has all kinds of implications about the nature of God and His attitude toward the faithful.

Anyway, back when I took the dialogue as literal and representative of an actual conversation, there were a couple of things that really bothered me about the dialogue, and one in particular that bothered me the most. It is the idea that God is specifically pointing out His believers to Satan, and almost goading Satan into tormenting the faithful. This is, shall we say, somewhat disconcerting. Man did that used to really trouble me.

Anyway, I was poking around Job the other day, and I did some research and learned something. It turns out that if you look into the Hebrew the picture painted (that is, the connotation) is a little different than what we have illustrated in our translations. Here is an English translation (NASB):

7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
8The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

...And the two proceed to barter the terms of the perturbing of Job. So it looks very much like God basically is basically saying, "Hey, Satan, you're not busy. Have you considered Job yet? Just TRY and make him turn against me!!"

But what the Hebrew actually suggests is that Satan says, effectively, "I return from prowling around on the earth," (i.e., as though he's searching for prey); and that the LORD then asks, "So you've been thinking about Job?" or even, "So you've settled on Job?" So while it appears in our translation that the LORD is, unprovoked, suggesting that Satan go pick on Job, in the original it appears that Satan had already zeroed in on Job, and the LORD is simply commenting on Satan's selection.

Isn't that interesting? To me this completely changes the meaning of the exchange. It's amazing how much is lost in translation.

ute4ever · 02-01-2009, 04:34 PM

If you lost your kids, would you miss them personally and individually? Or are you like Job, who viewed them as warm bodies # 1, 2, and 3? What bothers me about his "blessings" in the final chapter is his response, which is essentially, "hoorah, before I only had three but now I have six!"

BarbaraGordon · 02-01-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

If you lost your kids, would you miss them personally and individually? Or are you like Job, who viewed them as warm bodies # 1, 2, and 3? What bothers me about his "blessings" in the final chapter is his response, which is essentially, "hoorah, before I only had three but now I have six!"

Oh, no doubt. If you really believe the book offers insight into the heart and mind of God, the ideal attitude of the faithful, and the relationship between the two, there an awful lot of troubling implications.

Tex · 02-01-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever

If you lost your kids, would you miss them personally and individually? Or are you like Job, who viewed them as warm bodies # 1, 2, and 3? What bothers me about his "blessings" in the final chapter is his response, which is essentially, "hoorah, before I only had three but now I have six!"

Sorry, which verse is this?

BarbaraGordon · 02-01-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Sorry, which verse is this?

Actually, Job came out with the same number of kids he had in the beginning, but they were cooler than the first ones:
"The LORD restored the fortunes of Job...and blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning. He had seven sons and three daughters...and in all the land no women were found so fair as Job's daughters."
42:10-15

02-01-2009, 03:01 AM	#1
BarbaraGordon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gotham City Posts: 7,157	The dialogue in Job The narrative of Job is a fascinating story for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which is the celestial dialogue that opens the book. Now, I don't believe the dialogue (or the story, for that matter) is intended to be taken literally -- I believe the dialogue was added for rhetorical effect. But I used to take it literally, and when taken as such, it has all kinds of implications about the nature of God and His attitude toward the faithful. Anyway, back when I took the dialogue as literal and representative of an actual conversation, there were a couple of things that really bothered me about the dialogue, and one in particular that bothered me the most. It is the idea that God is specifically pointing out His believers to Satan, and almost goading Satan into tormenting the faithful. This is, shall we say, somewhat disconcerting. Man did that used to really trouble me. Anyway, I was poking around Job the other day, and I did some research and learned something. It turns out that if you look into the Hebrew the picture painted (that is, the connotation) is a little different than what we have illustrated in our translations. Here is an English translation (NASB): 7The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." 8The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil." ...And the two proceed to barter the terms of the perturbing of Job. So it looks very much like God basically is basically saying, "Hey, Satan, you're not busy. Have you considered Job yet? Just TRY and make him turn against me!!" But what the Hebrew actually suggests is that Satan says, effectively, "I return from prowling around on the earth," (i.e., as though he's searching for prey); and that the LORD then asks, "So you've been thinking about Job?" or even, "So you've settled on Job?" So while it appears in our translation that the LORD is, unprovoked, suggesting that Satan go pick on Job, in the original it appears that Satan had already zeroed in on Job, and the LORD is simply commenting on Satan's selection. Isn't that interesting? To me this completely changes the meaning of the exchange. It's amazing how much is lost in translation.

02-01-2009, 04:34 PM	#2
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	If you lost your kids, would you miss them personally and individually? Or are you like Job, who viewed them as warm bodies # 1, 2, and 3? What bothers me about his "blessings" in the final chapter is his response, which is essentially, "hoorah, before I only had three but now I have six!"