The disease of alcoholism...

[non sequitur]

Why do people have no problem categorizing something like OCD a disease, but cannot see that alcoholism, which is a compulsion of a different form, might also be a disease? I think people get hung up because they allow their sense of morality to cloud their ability to look at the condition clinically.

[Archaea]

To offer a different perspective, the disease of alcoholism impacts society in a far more egregious manner than does OCD.

My own family, extended that is, has lost millions due to this disease characteristic being prevalent. It led to the destruction of families, and in some instances loss of life.

OCD doesn't do that.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Archaea

To offer a different perspective, the disease of alcoholism impacts society in a far more egregious manner than does OCD.

My own family, extended that is, has lost millions due to this disease characteristic being prevalent. It led to the destruction of families, and in some instances loss of life.

OCD doesn't do that.

But the impact of a condition has nothing to do with whether it is a disease or not. I brought up OCD, because of its compulsive nature.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

But the impact of a condition has nothing to do with whether it is a disease or not. I brought up OCD, because of its compulsive nature.

People are afraid to classify action based conditions as diseases, because we often believe there are no cures for diseases and henc everything done by a diseased person is excused. That's the fear.

[OhioBlue]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

How did we make the leap of logic to call something a disease = no personal responsibility?

Are STD's not diseases? How about heart disease caused by obesity? Adult onset diabetes?

Are you going to argue that none of those are diseases becasue they are brought on by choices the suffereres made?

Who are you addressing these questions to? They're good questions, but from my reading of this thread so far I don't see anyone emphatically arguing that these things are not diseases. I see people wondering about the implications of calling alcoholism a disease, and wondering about where calling it a disease leads, practically speaking.

I think it's clear to see, from this thread and the one on Cougarboard, that for whatever reasons this IS a complicated topic, not near as clean-cut or black and white as it would appear. One need only google "alcoholism disease model" to see similar evidence. I don't think the complication comes from deciding on the definitional fit of a medical term per se, I think it comes from the implications that follow and other practical concerns.

Which is why your comment about a psychobabble debate is spot on. At the end of the day, Average Johhny Alcoholic who's seeking help doesn't much care whether it's called a "disease" or not; all he cares about (hopefully) is how to deal with it and fix the problem.

Arriving at calling something a disease, or NOT calling it a disease, is hardly an endpoint or a destination that solves anyone's problems. Hence my argument earlier in the thread that, from a practical standpoint of struggling with alcoholism, it's always more complicated than that.

Anyway, interesting discussion. Back to my drink.

[OhioBlue]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

But the impact of a condition has nothing to do with whether it is a disease or not.

Ding ding.

I think we're just getting caught up in what largely ends up being an inconsequential semantics argument. I suspect many of us agree here on this topic far more than we disagree. But I also think it's interesting that the word 'disease' for better or worse does appear to many to carry connotations about control and responsibility. I think what Archaea's voicing is that when some people think about disease, they think about an invasive pathogen, and what others are saying is that technically that's not all the word 'disease' means.

If that made any sense.

[MikeWaters]

that's why if you are going to argue, in polite company, that alcoholism is not a disease, you had better bring your A game.

Because it's a difficult sell. And you've suddenly, whether you want to or not, aligned yourself with the Johnnlingo's who think it's not a disease for perhaps different reasons. And people that are selling books saying the same thing.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

that's why if you are going to argue, in polite company, that alcoholism is not a disease, you had better bring your A game.

Because it's a difficult sell. And you've suddenly, whether you want to or not, aligned yourself with the Johnnlingo's who think it's not a disease for perhaps different reasons. And people that are selling books saying the same thing.

Is it possible that what is the disease is some psychic malady like depression, and alcoholism is secondary, a form of self-medication?

You shrinks are the experts but it seems to me that's the root of it and may be the best response to self-righteous FMCoug/Lingo types.

I can say I'm a social drinker and have never felt drawn to overdo it or drink compulsively. (It helps to be a workaholic.) I reach a point of diminishing returns very quickly after a second drink. Usually one is is best. I do think that those who do drink compulsively have a form of disease but what breeds ignorance may be calling drinking the disease rather than identifying some more deep seated illness.

As I'm sure Waters will attest, depression is a real disease.

[MikeWaters]

the self-medication debate is a long one.

did the depression leading to drinking, or did the drinking lead to depression? or did depression lead to drinking which led to worse depression?

Is this person who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder who uses meth really a bipolar person who uses meth, or just a meth-user who looked bipolar to someone?

Is this schizophrenic who comes in psychotic and cocaine-positive.....is he psychotic because he used the cocaine (and will wear off quickly), or is he psychotic just because (needs hospitalization)?

The analyst types might argue about some deep neurosis that is attempting to be squelched by alcohol. And that the alcohol drinking behavior isn't a disorder unto itself.

I could give numerous more examples. You could probably google "comorbid substance abuse" or "dual diagnosis" and get a lot of information.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the self-medication debate is a long one.

did the depression leading to drinking, or did the drinking lead to depression? or did depression lead to drinking which led to worse depression?

Is this person who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder who uses meth really a bipolar person who uses meth, or just a meth-user who looked bipolar to someone?

Is this schizophrenic who comes in psychotic and cocaine-positive.....is he psychotic because he used the cocaine (and will wear off quickly), or is he psychotic just because (needs hospitalization)?

The analyst types might argue about some deep neurosis that is attempting to be squelched by alcohol. And that the alcohol drinking behavior isn't a disorder unto itself.

I could give numerous more examples. You could probably google "comorbid substance abuse" or "dual diagnosis" and get a lot of information.

Well said.

Is there a school of thought that calls smoking addiction or eating disorders a "disease?" If not why not.