another case in point against homeschooling? - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

RedHeadGal · 11-25-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what church do you attend? Mine is the LDS church HQed in SLC.

haha. But seriously, when I think of the prietsthood, who holds it and what they do with it, I don't think of some static definition. In my mind, including OT times, God has changed the way in which priesthood powers are bestowed quite a few times, based on tribal lineage, etc. And then of course the obvious modern examples based on age and ethnicity among male members. My point ultimately is that it doesn't seem that crazy to me to ask the question "how do we know who holds the priesthood?" or more precisely "how do we know women won't?"

Would you believe there was a Women's Studies minor at BYU? It makes me lol now, even though I completed the minor. And we talked about this in a course or two along the way. At the Lord's university! The one headed up by those same old guys in SLC.

minn_stat · 11-25-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

A family in my ward homeschools, and last week I heard one of the children (age 10) loudly telling another child that Native Americans really aren't native because they had to come from somewhere else first, so if they are native, then so are white people. Now I take his point that it might not be the best possible name (and indeed, I'm not even sure it's the correct name any more). But what bothered me about it was his attitude, which seemed to be very dismissive of the cultural heritage that name seeks to protect.

The 8 yo child from that family is one of my Primary students and yesterday we were talking about the Holy Land on a map, and I was saying how there are many different faiths that consider the land to be holy for different reasons. So the 8 yo homeschool student suddenly starts to loudly correct me for calling Muslims by that name. He said something like Muslims are the same as Jews, and you shouldn't call them that. I think I said something like "okay, that's not right" and changed the subject. I have no idea what he was talking about.

But I came close to talking to his mother about it last night when I ran into her. Beacuse what is going on in that "HOME SCHOOL"? I chose not to, though. I didn't think it was likely to end well.

And this boy is a product of public schools.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24802

What is going on in that public school?

minn_stat · 11-25-2008, 11:31 AM

In contrast, consider a family I know very well that has been home schooling for quite a few years. I would love for my children to look up to this family as role models, to seek to be like them.

The oldest child is a sophomore at BYU, even though she is not yet 19 years old. She is on scholarship, is an A student, is an excellent flute player, and is active in sports. She is very friendly, interacts well with people of all ages, and shows a maturity and wisdom beyond her years.

The second is sixteen, and excels similarly in academics. She has received state-level accolades for her clarinet skills, and has participated in various sports as well. She is like her sister in her social/maturity levels.

The third, a boy, is 14, and is the best musician of them all. He is an accomplished pianist, a top-notch student, and a good basketball player. He has a bit of the moodiness often seen in teenagers at this age, but is for the most part a friendly, level-headed, and mature kid.

They also have three younger children that appear to be following in their older children's footsteps in most ways.

I know their parents focus on classical music and literature, but are not mullahs on keeping the influences of pop culture out of their home. None of these children seem very interested in pop culture, and all have a strong work ethic and good moral reasoning skills.

How did this happen, given that they are the product of a home school?

Clark Addison · 11-25-2008, 12:38 PM

I have no beef, in theory, with home schooling, and I am aware of several people similar to those that minn_stat mentions. Having said that, I have also known home schooled kids, who seemed intelligent, who could barely read when they were 10 years old.

I think it is clear that many of us react to the motivations of LDS home school parents. Maybe I am simplifying, but in my experience, very many LDS parents who home school are not doing so to give their child a better education, but instead to give them a more moral education. They are upset that the schools are too liberal, or that the schools teach evolution, or sex ed, or that they read a book that talks about breasts, or something like that. They are much more concerned with shielding than in enriching or educating.

RedHeadGal · 11-25-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

I have no beef, in theory, with home schooling, and I am aware of several people similar to those that minn_stat mentions. Having said that, I have also known home schooled kids, who seemed intelligent, who could barely read when they were 10 years old.

I think it is clear that many of us react to the motivations of LDS home school parents. Maybe I am simplifying, but in my experience, very many LDS parents who home school are not doing so to give their child a better education, but instead to give them a more moral education. They are upset that the schools are too liberal, or that the schools teach evolution, or sex ed, or that they read a book that talks about breasts, or something like that. They are much more concerned with shielding than in enriching or educating.

I actually wasn't trying to debate homeschooling and it's place in the world, which I don't have strong opinions about (so my topic was a bit misleading). I was more shocked at what those kids are being taught at home. Or confused, I guess. They are smart kids, and in this particular family they are homeschooled because after sending their oldest to kindergarten, the mother decided she could do it better.

Yes, I'm sure many people know perfectly wonderful, smart, well adjusted children who have been homeschooled.

Archaea · 11-25-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

I actually wasn't trying to debate homeschooling and it's place in the world, which I don't have strong opinions about (so my topic was a bit misleading). I was more shocked at what those kids are being taught at home. Or confused, I guess. They are smart kids, and in this particular family they are homeschooled because after sending their oldest to kindergarten, the mother decided she could do it better.

Yes, I'm sure many people know perfectly wonderful, smart, well adjusted children who have been homeschooled.

It seems to create an atmosphere where social development is necessarily postponed and the abilities of parents to teach advanced subjects seems improbable.

RedHeadGal · 11-25-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

It seems to create an atmosphere where social development is necessarily postponed and the abilities of parents to teach advanced subjects seems improbable.

But maybe if there were more homeschooling, or people at least hired tutors, we wouldn't have all this big government meddling in our lives and educating our children.

Archaea · 11-25-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

But maybe if there were more homeschooling, or people at least hired tutors, we wouldn't have all this big government meddling in our lives and educating our children.

Government sponsored education preceded big government. It is a rich frontier tradition. Now do we need a Department of Education at the federal level? Probably not.

RedHeadGal · 11-25-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Government sponsored education preceded big government. It is a rich frontier tradition. Now do we need a Department of Education at the federal level? Probably not.

When do you consider "big government" to have started? FDR?

MikeWaters · 11-25-2008, 02:57 PM

School is a free-for-all of ideas and values, as you are exposed to many people from different backgrounds.

This is what many homeschoolers are trying to avoid.

For example, a girl in my ward is home-schooled and done very well on her SAT.

Her father said that maybe if she ended up going to a more conservative university she wouldn't be exposed to "some lesbian school club."

Of course, it is probably true, that when you send your kid to a $50k/yr school on the east coast with three other Mormon undergrads in the entire school, none of them active, you are not setting up your child for being an active member of the church. But the parents and the child are in perfect agreement that that is the case, even if they never actually discuss it.

11-25-2008, 11:31 AM	#13
minn_stat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 283	In contrast, consider a family I know very well that has been home schooling for quite a few years. I would love for my children to look up to this family as role models, to seek to be like them. The oldest child is a sophomore at BYU, even though she is not yet 19 years old. She is on scholarship, is an A student, is an excellent flute player, and is active in sports. She is very friendly, interacts well with people of all ages, and shows a maturity and wisdom beyond her years. The second is sixteen, and excels similarly in academics. She has received state-level accolades for her clarinet skills, and has participated in various sports as well. She is like her sister in her social/maturity levels. The third, a boy, is 14, and is the best musician of them all. He is an accomplished pianist, a top-notch student, and a good basketball player. He has a bit of the moodiness often seen in teenagers at this age, but is for the most part a friendly, level-headed, and mature kid. They also have three younger children that appear to be following in their older children's footsteps in most ways. I know their parents focus on classical music and literature, but are not mullahs on keeping the influences of pop culture out of their home. None of these children seem very interested in pop culture, and all have a strong work ethic and good moral reasoning skills. How did this happen, given that they are the product of a home school?

11-25-2008, 12:38 PM	#14
Clark Addison Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 638	I have no beef, in theory, with home schooling, and I am aware of several people similar to those that minn_stat mentions. Having said that, I have also known home schooled kids, who seemed intelligent, who could barely read when they were 10 years old. I think it is clear that many of us react to the motivations of LDS home school parents. Maybe I am simplifying, but in my experience, very many LDS parents who home school are not doing so to give their child a better education, but instead to give them a more moral education. They are upset that the schools are too liberal, or that the schools teach evolution, or sex ed, or that they read a book that talks about breasts, or something like that. They are much more concerned with shielding than in enriching or educating.

11-25-2008, 02:57 PM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	School is a free-for-all of ideas and values, as you are exposed to many people from different backgrounds. This is what many homeschoolers are trying to avoid. For example, a girl in my ward is home-schooled and done very well on her SAT. Her father said that maybe if she ended up going to a more conservative university she wouldn't be exposed to "some lesbian school club." Of course, it is probably true, that when you send your kid to a $50k/yr school on the east coast with three other Mormon undergrads in the entire school, none of them active, you are not setting up your child for being an active member of the church. But the parents and the child are in perfect agreement that that is the case, even if they never actually discuss it.