My boy is 2 1/2 and doesn't talk.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by CardiacCoug

That's good advice. These things like autism, Asperger's and PDD are way overdiagnosed in very young children, usually by alarmist teachers or therapists who don't recognize that there is a wide range of development that is within the normal range.

I didn't talk much until I was four years old and my parents put me through a lot of speech therapy for years after that. Our oldest son was not speech-delayed but some idiot teachers at his pre-school told us he might have autism or ADD when he was 2 and 3 years old because he wouldn't make eye contact or sit in his chair. They put him through all of this formal testing and labeled him as being "on the autistic spectrum" which really upset my wife -- she was worried he would never live a normal life, etc. I thought all along that he was totally normal and he has turned out to be a totally normal, smart kid.

I think it's OK to go ahead with some type of evaluation for your son, just keeping things in perspective, like it sounds like you have been. Most likely he is just fine. Doing some formal hearing testing is probably all I would do.

I'm sure some will disagree with me, but I don't believe that even if a kid has autism, Asperger's, PDD, etc. that "early intervention" with therapy makes any long-term difference. Therapists like to claim that diagnosing a kid early is important to justify their existence, but I don't buy it. Now if a kid needs hearing aids, that is a different story and you want to do that as soon as possible.

I completely disagree with your lack of urgency. Our son had a host of issues that were either missed or misdiagnosed by two pediatricians and one eye doctor. One of his issues was that his eyes weren't lining up correctly. It was a bit subtle, but it was definitely there. We asked the pediatricians AND our our eye doctor about it and all said not to worry about it. When we finally got him in to specialist dealing with developmental delays, he told us to get our son to a pediatric ophthalmologist immediately. He ended up having two eye surgeries. The pediatric ophthalmologist told us that if we had waited another six months to a year, he most likely would have suffered permanent loss of sight in one eye. Which is exactly what happened to two of our neighbors.

The point is, kids with developmental delays often have a package of issues. There is no reason to delay a diagnosis.

[Gidget]

I think you can take a mixture of all these opinions/inputs. I guess that's truly what this whole board is for, but ultimately you are his parent and father. You and your wife know him better than anyone. It's tapping into those instincts and listening and observing that will help you come full circle. Which it sounds like you are doing. Your laid back approach just might have been the right thing and have saved a lot of needless worry, but now something (age, observations, even instinct) has made you feel like being more proactive. It sounds to me like you ARE paying great attention, and earlier urgency was unnecessary. And if something is amiss - don't beat yourself up over it, it's likely something you wouldn't have been able to prevent in any monumental way. You did say he imitates, shows emotion and gives and receives affection, that is leaps and bounds ahead of some disabled children. I agree with Cardiac a bit. I think therapists/doctors do tend to throw around titles and diagnostic opinions a little too much sometimes. The trouble with this is lots of times is that it is just that - an opinion. Autism, Asbergers, etc, are very hard to specifically diagnose and usually take years (and a lot of money). I am no expert, but I think the best thing I have learned about parenting so far is to trust myself more, and hone those special parenting instincts. I do believe they exist. If you think you should be more proactive now, then you probably should. Good for you.

[SeattleUte]

Cardiac,

Have you spent much time around small children? You don't seem like you have. I've spent my whole life around countless ones. I have five children and dozens of nieces and nephews. My youngest are 7, 4 and two and a half. I visit their pre-schools and schools constantly. I'm the oldest of seven children.

In my experience by two and a half a normal child is speaking in sentences, often somewhat complex ones, all the time repeating phrases they hear, and enunciating fairly well. They jabber constantly, in real English. This is what is NORMAL. If by two and a half a child is not even saying yes and no properly and nothing else, doctors and parents are being irresponsible if they don't have the child thoroughly checked out. I'd also be skeptical if some sort of therapy weren't recommended.

Contrary to some suggestion here, there's more at stake here than utlimately learning to speak. These ages are irreplacable in a child's development arc.

[TripletDaddy]

Despite the protestations of everyone here, nobody seems to be a specialist in the area.

SU is claiming expertise now because he has lots of nieces and nephews and because he hangs around school zones with binocs.

Here is a question for anyone (I don't know the answer).....what is the rate of occurrence for austism and ASD in children? If it is 1 in every 100, that is a really low probability. If it is 1 in 1000, that is even less. And if so, then it is fair to say that generally, paranoia is unfounded. The chances that your kid has any ASD is extremely remote.

Again, it is not to say that your child should not be diagnosed or tested. But I agree that milestone paranoia is rampant in our generation.

The thing that is skewing this discussion here is that there are 5 or 6 of us with kids in speech therapy (this includes me) or other developmental delays.

Most people here also have advanced degrees. That doesn't make it the norm.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Here is a question for anyone (I don't know the answer).....what is the rate of occurrence for austism and ASD in children? If it is 1 in every 100, that is a really low probability. If it is 1 in 1000, that is even less. And if so, then it is fair to say that generally, paranoia is unfounded. The chances that your kid has any ASD is extremely remote.

Again, it is not to say that your child should not be diagnosed or tested. But I agree that milestone paranoia is rampant in our generation.

The thing that is skewing this discussion here is that there are 5 or 6 of us with kids in speech therapy (this includes me) or other developmental delays.

Most people here also have advanced degrees. That doesn't make it the norm.

Nobody except you is positing a diagnosis. I dont know that ratios of autism or ASD are even relevent here. What's that all about? I don't know why you feel qualified to condemn "milestone paranoia". Clearly you aren't. You sound like a cleric railing against "intellectuals" and "philosophers." You don't know what you're talking about.

Some of us are being explicit (Waters is the most extreme example) here so that folks like you and Cardiac don't mislead into complacency, when there are so many resources to help young children with developmental hiccups, or more serious problems. There didn't used to be antibiotics, now there are. Now we have sophisticated means of checking hearing, all kinds of things, and helping children learn to speak. There are developmental benefits to speaking at 2 and a half.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Nobody except you is positing a diagnosis. I dont know that ratios of autism or ASD are even relevent here. What's that all about? I don't know why you feel qualified to condemn "milestone paranoia". Clearly you aren't. You sound like a cleric railing against "intellectuals" and "philosophers." You don't know what you're talking about.

Some of us are being explicit (Waters is the most extreme example) here so that folks like you and Cardiac don't mislead into complacency, when there are so many resources to help young children with developmental hiccups, or more serious problems. There didn't used to be antibiotics, now there are. Now we have sophisticated means of checking hearing, all kinds of things, and helping children learn to speak. There are developmental benefits to speaking at 2 and a half.

The issue isn't whether there are developmental benefits to speaking at 2.5. It is whether it is out of the range of normal to not be speaking very much at 2.5. And it is not. So no need for paranoia once the doc gives the parents the green light. If you get a second opinion, fine. All the better.

Nobody has ever said to not enroll kids into therapy or classes, nor to avoid diagnoses. I have never once advised anyone to not seek medical advice.

I believe it is you who is being misleading on this one.

You also ignore Cardiac's reality....that misdiagnosis is not uncommon. I know at least 5 of my wife's friends that are worried their kids has autism. Why? One of the women read on the internet that if a kid likes to watch wheels spin, that the kid may have autism. And so one day, the mom noticed that the boy was playing with his train and looking at the wheels as he pushed the train along the track.

Maybe I am just a rarity in that I happen to befriend or converse online with all the autistics in the country. Or maybe people need to chill out a bit and stop playing WebMD because their kid is shy.

I say go with what a doc advises, not what anyone here advises (including myself). Despite your chest thumping, you know no more about this than anyone else here.

[Gidget]

I think it's pretty well founded at this day and age that the definition of "NORMAL" when it comes to child milestones has an extremely wide range. Yes, everybody wants their children to be speaking complex sentences at 2 1/2, but when it doesn't happen I don't think your child qualifies as "behind" in development. Obviously, Levin is ready to take some action, and I think 2 1/2 is a perfect age to do so if he and his wife feel like it is the right thing to do. According to SU's expertise (his genius neices and nephews) my 2 1/2 year old would be developmentally challenged. Complacency is not the issue, no one wants to be complacent regarding their children's health, but not everyone parent needs the opinion of a Dr. to make them feel at ease. In this case, I think a Doctor's visit is in order, but I don't think "urgency" is warranted, that would just make a family anxious and overly worried, and most parents know that your children can feel that nervous and insecure energy, and it ususally isn't the healthiest environment to foster.

[MikeWaters]

maybe some urgency is in order, because IF you want to do something, it can take a long time to get it started.

Waiting lists, etc.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

maybe some urgency is in order, because IF you want to do something, it can take a long time to get it started.

Waiting lists, etc.

this is a fair point.

Our boy was bumped to the front of the list simply by virtue of being a preemie HOM, but the list was there, nonetheless. he gets speech therapy.

[Gidget]

For clerical reason I can see why some urgency might be needed, but I just wanted to make the point that rushing to a diagnoses isn't the best route in my opinion. Ironic, that these waiting lists are likely partly caused by frantic parents looking over their kids shoulders to see if they're are wheel watching.