Is unbelief a choice?

[SeattleUte]

Confidential poll.

[pelagius]

channeling the bloggernacle or just coincidence?

http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/...ose-your-faith

[woot]

It seems to me that there were various circumstances in my life that led to the opportunity to make a choice, so it seems it was a bit of both. I voted yes, but I do think there are many people who never have opportunity to make an actual decision about whether they want to believe/not believe.

[Requiem]

This is a thought provoking topic and rekindles memories of debating the relative merits of Free Will vs. Determinism; and in particular the fascinating dialogue between Erasmus and Luther. Gordon Rupp's book, "Luther and Erasmus: Free Will and Salvation" is an excellent treatise.

Determinists (Luther) would argue that the nature of the universe is such that free will is not possible under any conditions, and each action is caused by a particular prior cause. In Luther's view, fallen man can only imagine himself to be a free creature.

Rupp summarizes Erasmus' free will position: "By free choice in this place we mean a power of the human will by which a man can apply himself to the things which lead to eternal salvation, or turn away from them."

Advocates of Luther's position argue there is little or no choice whether or not to believe - especially as we grow older and expand our base of "prior causes".

Obviously this topic is far too complicated to discuss in depth here - and I readily acknowledge there are many resident with wiser perspectives. However, it is intriguing to contemplate the premise that our ability to choose (i.e. free will) may be much more limited than previously assumed.

[jay santos]

Faith is a spiritual gift.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Faith is a spiritual gift.

Supplies won't last. There are only 144,000.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Supplies won't last. There are only 144,000.

That right there is funny!

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

That right there is funny!

Yes it is. Very funny.

[T Blue]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Supplies won't last. There are only 144,000.

Oooooohhhhhhhhh........ Choose me, choose me.............

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Requiem

This is a thought provoking topic and rekindles memories of debating the relative merits of Free Will vs. Determinism; and in particular the fascinating dialogue between Erasmus and Luther. Gordon Rupp's book, "Luther and Erasmus: Free Will and Salvation" is an excellent treatise.

Determinists (Luther) would argue that the nature of the universe is such that free will is not possible under any conditions, and each action is caused by a particular prior cause. In Luther's view, fallen man can only imagine himself to be a free creature.

Rupp summarizes Erasmus' free will position: "By free choice in this place we mean a power of the human will by which a man can apply himself to the things which lead to eternal salvation, or turn away from them."

Advocates of Luther's position argue there is little or no choice whether or not to believe - especially as we grow older and expand our base of "prior causes".

Obviously this topic is far too complicated to discuss in depth here - and I readily acknowledge there are many resident with wiser perspectives. However, it is intriguing to contemplate the premise that our ability to choose (i.e. free will) may be much more limited than previously assumed.

Interestgin stuff but I don't think that's what he is after. I think he means is unbeleif a choice like belief is a choice. IOW, unbbeleif is the natural state so the only choice is to believe, where you move from a natural condition to beleif.

Here it might be better to comapre never-believed with believe as oppsoed to fomrerly-believed with beilieve. The first may be argued to be a non-choice and a choice, while the second may both be chocies.

I could be wroing, and maybe he was trying to tee up luther vs. erasmus.