What kind of men does God want?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

Evil is in the eye of God.

Thanks. Finally you choose. To kill.

Ok, that's the answer I thought you would come up with. Someday you may be a made man. If God is that way. I hope God is not that way.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by All-American

Which is the reason I am not particularly inclined to discuss it here. You seem much less anxious to honestly discuss it than to pick a fight.

It's a deadly serious thing. People are being killed all around the world everyday by people who say that God told them to kill.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It's a deadly serious thing. People are being killed all around the world everyday by people who say that God told them to kill.

Deadly serious, indeed; so much so that I'm not going to regard it as bait for another trolling expedition.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by All-American

Deadly serious, indeed; so much so that I'm not going to regard it as bait for another trolling expedition.

I know. You are afraid that your carefully-thought-out explanation of why you would kill your children would be mocked and used against you.

At least that's my guess.

Kind of bizarre, this landscape. The righteous saints walk past the great and spacious building, and those in that building mock and criticize the saints for killing their children. That would be bizarro world.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

Which is the reason I am not particularly inclined to discuss it here. You seem much less anxious to honestly discuss it than to pick a fight.

Perhaps I am alone, but I don't believe God would ask me to do something evil. Something hard, or unpleasant, or selfless? Probably. Evil? No.

I pass off the literalness of the Biblical events as potentially valid teaching episodes, but unlikely real events.

And Nephi's explanation, assuming he's a real person, is likely an episode of self-justification rather than God telling him to murder Laban. So I guess I'll have to cross that bridge it I come to it.

But overall, I'm still working on unpleasant or selfless acts before I worry about Abrahamic conundrums.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I know. You are afraid that your carefully-thought-out explanation of why you would kill your children would be mocked and used against you.

At least that's my guess.

Kind of bizarre, this landscape. The righteous saints walk past the great and spacious building, and those in that building mock and criticize the saints for killing their children. That would be bizarro world.

Shoot, you got me figured out. That's precisely why I'm not hopping in the mud with you-- because of how embarrassed I would be if I lost the mud wrestling match. Good catch.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Thanks. Finally you choose. To kill.

Ok, that's the answer I thought you would come up with. Someday you may be a made man. If God is that way. I hope God is not that way.

Not what I said.

[creekster]

This is why I think second guessing somebody like Joseph Smith is so difficult. These questions/scenarios all assume that we are the same as we sit here right now typing away and are asked to kill a child. None of us would and if we say we would we are liars or should be locked up now. But what if you actually had direct communication with God? What if a heavenly messenger actually appeared hovering in your room and told you to do so and then accompanied you to the spot? What if you were granted some sort of spiritual enlightenment, an ability to grasp (and yet perhaps imperfectly express) eternal truths and in that context you saw and comprehended how this request fit the purpose of God? Would you be obedient? I don't know if I would or not, because having had those experiences I would be someone else, in some other place, and trying to get there now, with my oh-so-mundane frame of reference is pretty hard. So for me, I read the stories in the scriptures, and I try to use them to guide my life, but trying to put myself in their place, in these most extreme circumstances, with their knowledge and experience and then decide what I would do may not be the best or most useful approach. I can only hope that if God, and remember, we are talking about God the Eternal Father, asked me directly to do something that I would do it.

Think about some of the things that Joseph Smith asked people to do. To give up their homes, their families, to move to a strange land and start over with nothing, to sacrifice what little they had to build a temple, and so forth. All of these things entailed huge sacrifices by the members, yet because of his divine encounters, he was able to extract this sort of commitment and do so successfully. I can't understand that, nor could I do it, to tell you the truth, unless I too had the sort of divine mandate that he had. Then, perhaps, I could do it.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by creekster

This is why I think second guessing somebody like Joseph Smith is so difficult. These questions/scenarios all assume that we are the same as we sit here right now typing away and are asked to kill a child. None of us would and if we say we would we are liars or should be locked up now. But what if you actually had direct communication with God? What if a heavenly messenger actually appeared hovering in your room and told you to do so and then accompanied you to the spot? What if you were granted some sort of spiritual enlightenment, an ability to grasp (and yet perhaps imperfectly express) eternal truths and in that context you saw and comprehended how this request fit the purpose of God? Would you be obedient? I don't know if I would or not, because having had those experiences I would be someone else, in some other place, and trying to get there now, with my oh-so-mundane frame of reference is pretty hard. So for me, I read the stories in the scriptures, and I try to use them to guide my life, but trying to put myself in their place, in these most extreme circumstances, with their knowledge and experience and then decide what I would do may not be the best or most useful approach. I can only hope that if God, and remember, we are talking about God the Eternal Father, asked me directly to do something that I would do it.

Think about some of the things that Joseph Smith asked people to do. To give up their homes, their families, to move to a strange land and start over with nothing, to sacrifice what little they had to build a temple, and so forth. All of these things entailed huge sacrifices by the members, yet because of his divine encounters, he was able to extract this sort of commitment and do so successfully. I can't understand that, nor could I do it, to tell you the truth, unless I too had the sort of divine mandate that he had. Then, perhaps, I could do it.

You know, this is exactly what liberals say when they are saying that so-and-so should not be punished harshly for the brutal rape and murder of person x. They go through all the extreme circumstances of his life and ask how you could possibly judge them with the same standard you would judge yourself.

[Snowcat]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

It's a deadly serious thing. People are being killed all around the world everyday by people who say that God told them to kill.

How do they believe that God tells them?

If I was told, through what I believe to be a human mouthpiece that is subject human imperfections, no, I would not trust them on this. If I believed I was directly inspired to do it, no, I would not trust my own imperfect judgement in this case. If I had a vivid dream where I thought I was told too to do it, no way would I trust that.

If God himself stood infront of me and instructed me to do it, I am afraid I might fail that kind of test. I do not believe that this test will ever come.

I believe my tests come in much smaller ways and I am afraid that I still have plenty to work on.