To those who would withdraw from Iraq.

[UtahDan]

"If the President was to say, addressing the anti-war liberal left, if you think the Iraqi insurgency are the Viet Cong you're making the biggest mistake of your life, you see, if they're anything, they're the Khmer Rouge. Now how do you like your argument?"

http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/9456506.html

This is a fascinating point. This interview has some very good, honest discussion about what a pullout would look like and the merits of simply dividing between Kurdistan, a Sunni state and a Shiite state.

Hitchens seems to say that he would be okay with that blood bath (the one that follows withdrawal) IF Al Queda has been humiliated not just on the battlefield, but in the eyes of the region, having been rejected by Iraqis.

I think it is a point very, very well taken when we ask the question "what does victory look like" that at a minimum, we cannot allow Wahabist thugs to replace Saddam Hussein because they are the Khmer Rouge. For those not familiar with what that means, look it up on wiki. We can't have that on our heads.. If we can get to that point, then I think there is an argument, which has a great deal of force, that civil war may inevitably follow a pullout and that we don't much care about the result EXCEPT that Al Queda doesn't control any part of Iraq, and Kurdistan remains intact.

Well worth a listen.

Oh, and he ends by saying Clinton is the only candidate who has, at least at one time, recognized what needs to happen. He hates Clinton.

[woot]

Hitchens came right out and said that he supports the war because he wants to kill all Muslims. They are a danger to the world, and therefore must be slaughtered. Quoting someone who supports genocide in order to justify a war doesn't strike me as a great idea.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by woot

Hitchens came right out and said that he supports the war because he wants to kill all Muslims. They are a danger to the world, and therefore must be slaughtered. Quoting someone who supports genocide in order to justify a war doesn't strike me as a great idea.

Leaving aside your ad hominem dodge, its not actually a point in support of the war. It is a point which attempts to define the proper conditions of withdrawal and which actually concedes that the worst fears of the right about the civil war which would follow may not be justified. Not that it would not occur, but rather than it may inevitably occur and that our goal should not be prevent such, but only to prevent Al Queda from winning and to prevent the Kurds from losing.

Also, doesn't Hitchens atheism bolster his credibility in your eyes? Why not just address the argument, hmm?

[woot]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Leaving aside your ad hominem dodge, its not actually a point in support of the war. It is a point which attempts to define the proper conditions of withdrawal and which actually concedes that the worst fears of the right about the civil war which would follow may not be justified. Not that it would not occur, but rather than it may inevitably occur and that our goal should not be prevent such, but only to prevent Al Queda from winning and to prevent the Kurds from losing.

Also, doesn't Hitchens atheism bolster his credibility in your eyes? Why not just address the argument, hmm?

Hitchens is right about most things, and often has good arguments. He also represents a side of atheism that isn't terribly healthy and I'm not a fan of his position as such a prominent face. I have no opinion on the topic at hand, so I took the opportunity to point out what should be a giant red flag. It was not intended to be anything other than ad hominem, but I think you'll agree that genocidal folk tend not to have as much credibility.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by woot

Hitchens is right about most things, and often has good arguments. He also represents a side of atheism that isn't terribly healthy and I'm not a fan of his position as such a prominent face. I have no opinion on the topic at hand, so I took the opportunity to point out what should be a giant red flag. It was not intended to be anything other than ad hominem, but I think you'll agree that genocidal folk tend not to have as much credibility.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are ill informed and mischaracterizing what he said. Here is a good statement from him of his atheism.

http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/9692512.html

I can intellectually respect his position though I disagree with the conclusions he draws.

[woot]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are ill informed and mischaracterizing what he said. Here is a good statement from him of his atheism.

http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/uk/9692512.html

I can intellectually respect his position though I disagree with the conclusions he draws.

Please tell me what I'm ill informed about without requiring that I view a 20 minute video that I've probably already seen.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

"If the President was to say, addressing the anti-war liberal left, if you think the Iraqi insurgency are the Viet Cong you're making the biggest mistake of your life, you see, if they're anything, they're the Khmer Rouge. Now how do you like your argument?"

Remember I'm the one who said Cali should see the Killing Fields. But nobody ever gives me credit for anything.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Remember I'm the one who said Cali should see the Killing Fields. But nobody ever gives me credit for anything.

Good call.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Remember I'm the one who said Cali should see the Killing Fields. But nobody ever gives me credit for anything.

You're so damn needy SU. Fine, you get credit.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

You're so damn needy SU. Fine, you get credit.

I saw The Killing Fields when it was released and found it very upsetting and disturbing. I was but a junior high school lad when Saigon fell and didn't quite understand just how bad of a situation we left behind by giving in to the anti-war wusses and quitting.

For the record, I want to state that there is a difference between wanting peace and being a pussy.