10-24-2008, 04:27 PM | #81 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
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From those who advocate universal care, we have bloviated numbers of persons denied health care, or access, dying because of lack of insurance. Investigate the "sources" for these numbers, dig deeper and you can determine there are lies. Then the opponents engage in the same sorts of chicanery. Nobody is being honest in this debate, and the ones who will be screwed are the consumers of it. When Obama relies extensively upon Kaiser Permanente for his numbers, you know what angle he's heading at and what biases the documentation will provide. Why is this? Because managed care presumes they will be the major beneficiaries of universal care so they carry the water of proponents. It's one big circle jerk.
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11-02-2008, 11:11 AM | #82 | |
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Location: Minnesota
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But even a cursory exercise with mathematics and logic shows that they were taking huge liberties with numbers and definitions at best, and outright fabricating (lying) at worst. Three million homeless is over 1% of Americans. If 1% of the people of Salt Lake Valley were homeless, that means there should have been nearly 10,000 homeless people in the valley. And over 3,000 in Utah Valley. Well over 100,000 in the greater Los Angeles area. I'm sure all of you noticed these throngs of homeless back in those days... When supporters were clamoring for passage of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), they claimed over 40 million Americans had disabilities. That was 1 in 7 Americans, and to paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke, that can't be true unless they count the inability to balance a checkbook as a disability. |
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11-02-2008, 11:20 AM | #83 | |
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This thread got focused on whether or not socialism suppresses the drive to excel. I think the bigger problem is that it gives economic power to those who already have political power, and this consolidation of power should be concerning to Americans in general. It provides tremendous temptation for corruption and abuse of power. |
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11-02-2008, 11:33 AM | #84 |
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Location: Minnesota
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Along this line, I find it interesting that generally speaking, those of a more liberal bent are more likely to be aware of and worried about all sorts of corporate and government malfeasance, very untrusting of organizations with power, and yet their solutions generally tend towards rectifying this by giving more power to government. As if people in government are somehow more moral and immune to abuse of power.
Conversely, conservatives tend to be against bigger government, but also tend to be more likely to trust those who have power. Kind of an interesting dichotomy in my mind. |
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