Is there a place for the modern woman in the church?

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The message here is "we value you, we want you to be educated, but please do not pursue careers. your education is a fallback which hopefully you will never have to use."

That is what you take from it. I take from it, "if you get an education and have a career and the mullahs tell you are not following the Lords commandments, you can tell the mullahs to take a hike."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The message here is "we value you, we want you to be educated, but please do not pursue careers. your education is a fallback which hopefully you will never have to use."

That is the message from the church. There's no denying that. You won't hear Pres. Hinckley encouraging young women pursuing professional careers as a primary goal. It doesn't fit in with current church policy. BYU's a little different. They probably don't push girls into professional disciplines as much as maybe other universities but they don't push them away.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

IWe hear of single LDS professional women feeling like their dating options are limited because LDS men are either disinterested or intimidated by such women. Many professional women may feel that the concerns of the typical LDS homemaker are different than their concerns. Some feel judged and scorned for their choices.

I think all evidence points to LDS young women being discouraged from pursuing professional careers. Is this how you all feel as well? That you will subtly discourage this for your daughters?

Is this view changing in the church? (i.e. is the church very slowly becoming slightly more liberal in its view on women's roles in society?) or is this apostasy creeping into the church, "the philosophies of men"?

Contrary to traditional conservative opinion, cultural changes within the church are not indicative of "apostasy creep". My experiences, while not representative of a broad sample, support the hypothesis that there are LDS women who are being encouraged to complete their advanced educations, pursue careers that have societal value and not passively allow life to slip by while waiting for their "heaven sent RM" to make their lives complete. I will always be grateful for a father who emphasized the importance of not only completing my education, but also using my skills as a means to contribute to society. He was passionate about taking on new challenges and aggressively living life.

There are active LDS women (myself included) who face a serious cultural dilemma. Do we limit our social and dating activities exclusively to the stereotypical "active LDS" male community? I have come to the conclusion this represents a myopic view. There are too many single LDS women who have wasted valuable time by waiting for their supposed "one and only". All too often they find themselves without meaningful skills or a career. At this point, I would rather marry a good, honest non-LDS man than passively watch life pass by.

My experiences and opinions may not place me in the proverbial "LDS mainstream"; however, there is hope that the church will continue to broaden its outlook of the role of women and emphasize the importance of education and careers. One size no longer fits all either within the church or in the world.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Contrary to traditional conservative opinion, cultural changes within the church are not indicative of "apostasy creep". My experiences, while not representative of a broad sample, support the hypothesis that there are LDS women who are being encouraged to complete their advanced educations, pursue careers that have societal value and not passively allow life to slip by while waiting for their "heaven sent RM" to make their lives complete. I will always be grateful for a father who emphasized the importance of not only completing my education, but also using my skills as a means to contribute to society. He was passionate about taking on new challenges and aggressively living life.

There are active LDS women (myself included) who face a serious cultural dilemma. Do we limit our social and dating activities exclusively to the stereotypical "active LDS" male community? I have come to the conclusion this represents a myopic view. There are too many single LDS women who have wasted valuable time by waiting for their supposed "one and only". All too often they find themselves without meaningful skills or a career. At this point, I would rather marry a good, honest non-LDS man than passively watch life pass by.

My experiences and opinions may not place me in the proverbial "LDS mainstream"; however, there is hope that the church will continue to broaden its outlook of the role of women and emphasize the importance of education and careers. One size no longer fits all either within the church or in the world.

I think quietly many church leaders applaud you and your decisions.

There was a time the church actively pushed RM's to get married as fast as possible. That is not done now and someone told me it was because there were so many divorces due to marriages that happened to quick.

[Clark Addison]

I think a lot of this depends on the geography and age of the ward. In our ward, there are few, if any, 40+ year old women who are professionally trained. They either don't have a degree, or they got a degree in English or Family Sciences and never worked after college, something like that.

On the other hand, if you look at the 25-35 year old married women, most have degrees, many in professional fields (mainly accounting or finance for some reason). Many of them worked after school, and some still aren't. Of the ones that are staying home with their kids, I think many will return to work in a few years. The professional women are still in the minority, but it is a growing group. I know of wards in places like Washington DC where there are a lot of professional women.

I have three daughters, and my wife and I stress education to them a lot, especially in areas that are not traditional for Mormon women. I don't think we are unusual in that regard.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

I think a lot of this depends on the geography and age of the ward. In our ward, there are few, if any, 40+ year old women who are professionally trained. They either don't have a degree, or they got a degree in English or Family Sciences and never worked after college, something like that.

On the other hand, if you look at the 25-35 year old married women, most have degrees, many in professional fields (mainly accounting or finance for some reason). Many of them worked after school, and some still aren't. Of the ones that are staying home with their kids, I think many will return to work in a few years. The professional women are still in the minority, but it is a growing group. I know of wards in places like Washington DC where there are a lot of professional women.

I have three daughters, and my wife and I stress education to them a lot, especially in areas that are not traditional for Mormon women. I don't think we are unusual in that regard.

I don't think any of you are my age. I have seen things change.

For instance when I was a kid you never saw a woman pray in Sacrament Meeting, Stake Conf. and I can't ever remember as a kid a woman speaking in general conference. Probably coincidence, but those things came about the same time as the ERA and womens lib.

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I first started thinking about this when I had a female friend investigate the church. She attended a couple of times with me, and she said that she could not handle Relief Society and really hated it. I gather she felt like she was transported into 1950.

One comment on Relief Society. The Church (for better or worse) lags behind the general population in female professionals and attitudes about them. I believe that it is also true that in many ways the attitudes that you see in RS lag behind the Church as a whole.

Which women are more likely to be called into the RS Presidency? Either older women or women who stay at home. Culture tends to follow leaders, and therefore, in many wards, the RS culture tends to be influenced more by the more conservative group. Our RS Presidency consists of 3 stay-at-home Moms, 2 of whom home-school. This is not a criticism of them, they do a great job, but they have their own background, viewpoints, and biases. If you had 3 professional women in the presidency, I imagine things would be a little different.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I don't know. If I had a child that I wanted to turn out like Tex, I would probably send them to Ricks.

You wish you could be so lucky.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Duh, BYU is heavily populated by mormons Mike and BYU is more attractive to the more fundamentalist types in the church. I will bet the cultural pull to not pursue a career is even stronger at Ricks and even stronger yet at a Mulsim fundamentalist college.

If my post and mullah attitude has lead you to believe that every one that attended Ricks or lives in Rexburg is as hard line as me I'm sorry I gave that impression.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm not aware of a single professional woman in my ward who is married with children.

We have several. I'd guess your ward is an outlier from an economic perspective, no? What % of adult members of your ward are professionals at all (male of female)?