Why do we need a Savior?

[JohnnyLingo]

Why couldn't God have just allowed us to pray to Him, ask for forgiveness, make restitution... all that... without a Savior? We'd still learn and grow. Why can't God just absolve us of our sins on His own?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Why couldn't God have just allowed us to pray to Him, ask for forgiveness, make restitution... all that... without a Savior? We'd still learn and grow. Why can't God just absolve us of our sins on His own?

because of people like Pataki.

[Alkili]

Because there is a balance of justice and mercy.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Why couldn't God have just allowed us to pray to Him, ask for forgiveness, make restitution... all that... without a Savior? We'd still learn and grow. Why can't God just absolve us of our sins on His own?

he does ask us to pray to him, ask him for forgiveness and make restitution to him....at least in the church i attend....

[JohnnyLingo]

he does ask us to pray to him, ask him for forgiveness and make restitution to him....at least in the church i attend....

Uh, fus, I know that. But thanks for pointing it out, anyway.

So... so far I get two 1-sentence answers that are cryptic at best and one response from fusnik that misinterprets the question.

Anyone else?

[Archaea]

you have served a mission in Africa and you still ask.

You are obviously aware of Sunday School answers.

If you are pondering, why the plan is the way it is or whether alternative plans could have been devised, it would be pure speculation.

However, I imagine Father plans things as they must be.

The universal laws of justice demand a sacrafice to satisfy broken laws by a sinner. Without that, some universal incongruence will result. Our Savior was that sacrafice.

In return for his payment of our debt, we must obey him.

Metaphysically, I have no idea why it must be so, but it makes rudimentary sense, but only that, as I have no deep understanding of the cosmos and universal laws, at least not now.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Uh, fus, I know that. But thanks for pointing it out, anyway.

So... so far I get two 1-sentence answers that are cryptic at best and one response from fusnik that misinterprets the question.

Anyone else?

what exactly are you looking for johnny?

are you looking for a 'different' response from someone here?

are you looking for someone to offer an obscure thought on the atonement?

we all know the principles of justice and mercy....the answers are quite elementary even though the event was spectacular....

if you want a direction for us to go in open and theological discussion you have to lead the way....

[Alkili]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Uh, fus, I know that. But thanks for pointing it out, anyway.

So... so far I get two 1-sentence answers that are cryptic at best and one response from fusnik that misinterprets the question.

Anyone else?

I'm sorry if my responce seems cryptic, I just asume that you understand the balance of justice and mercy.

Your question is a little vague, as in I don't know what you are wanting as a reply.

[tooblue]

The only way justice can be satisfied is if another person literally experienced the same sorrow, pain and suffering you felt at any given moment of your life when you transgressed, injured or were wonded in any and all capacities within the construct of mortality.

The mediator, who literally pays for your sins, must be a peer, born into this realm of existence.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by tooblue

The only way justice can be satisfied is if another person literally experienced the same sorrow, pain and suffering you felt at any given moment of your life when you transgressed, injured or were wonded in any and all capacities within the construct of mortality.

The mediator, who literally pays for your sins, must be a peer, born into this realm of existence.

To my way of thinking, that's a wholly unsatisfactory answer. Why must there be a mediator? Why must that mediator be a peer? Why does that mediator need to be born into this realm of existence? Why is this the only way justice can be served? Why is justice even necessary?

We hear all these sweeping pronouncements of why the plan of salvation and the atonement are necessary, but none of it rings true to me. If there really is a God and if he is powerful enough to create a universe, I've got to think that he could have laid things out any way he wanted. The whole notion that we are placed on earth on some kind of cosmic probation and that the only way we can get through it satisfactorily is through an atonement, just seems like a lot of mumbo jumbo to me. I'm not trying to be offensive or insult anybody's beliefs, but it is honestly difficult for me to believe that all of these things are really necessary.