emma smith....now i know on the other.... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

fusnik11 · 01-04-2006, 09:09 PM

site this was discussed but i figured we could possibly discuss it here as we can be more open and candid...

what are the haters problem with emma? why is her faith even questioned?

how would it be, you are the wife of the prophet of the restoration, he says he speaks with god, has had angelic visits, translates plates of brass in your presence, organizes a church of people to usher in the second coming of christ, builds temples, cities, listens to your suggestions, helps organize a womens organization, performs miracles in your presence all the while taking on additional wives and possibly impregnanting other women and lying to you about it.

is it possible her faith came to its ropes end? if in the same situation as her, would you stick around supporting the prophet?

tooblue · 01-04-2006, 09:21 PM

I question the assertion that he lied to her.

In my mind her unwillingness to move West had more to do with her desire to seek refuge from the unrelenting turmoil and trials of her life as the wife of the Prophet and less to do with her dislike of Brigham Young or a lack of faith etc.

I always imagined that she might very well have thought; 'Joseph now has his peace, when will my peace come? Will death relieve me and my children of the burden of the restoration?' What's more had she gone West what would have been her role in the church ... As a woman she likely would have been relegated to a life irrelevancy and potentially even poverty. In my opinion she was in a no win situation and did what she felt was best for her and her children.

non sequitur · 01-04-2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblue

In my mind her unwillingness to move West had more to do with her desire to seek refuge from the unrelenting turmoil and trials of her life as the wife of the Prophet and less to do with her dislike of Brigham Young or a lack of a testimony etc.

You don't think Emma's disdain for polygamy had anything to do with Emma's decision not to follow Brigham Young?

ute4ever · 01-04-2006, 09:41 PM

I have a lot of respect for Emma. She went through more persecution, agony and heartbreak than any of us. I can see why she wanted off of the rollercoaster and just sought peace and quiet.

Goatnapper'96 · 01-04-2006, 09:54 PM

I just genuinely believe that she gets a pedestal more as a consequence that she is Joseph's wife and because we must convince ourselves that things were do difficult that her that she was unable to carry on carry on carry on.

I think most, if not all, of the women who travelled west to SLC faced the same challenges and many had endured similar trials. I wish not to denigrate Emma, but rather point out that there are examples of folks who endured likewise and yet we are more concerned with giving Emma the prestige.

I am sure she is solid and the reality is that if she does not end up in the Celestial Kingdom, I don't have a prayer. I just think there are others who demonstrated more fortitude and commitment to the entire cause, and not just the cause of Joseph, who we ignore to reinforce our artificial opinion of Emma.

I believe she had a deep disdain for Brigham Young and polygamy. That is a fact. I believe it played a huge role in her decision as her later involvement with the RLDS faith and its eschewing of all polygamy teachings indicates. I believe she was very attracted to her status as the Prophet's wife, or first one at least. She did not want to share that catbird seat with anyone. I can empathize with her not going west for a variety of reasons, but if Emma was such a chosen and elect lady of the Restored Gospel, why did she not teach it to her children? Not going west is actually understandable, but abdicating the religious principles that her husband gave his life to restore strikes me at odds with the romanticized picture we have of Emma.

I also think she kicked Eliza R. Snow's ass. But Eliza was knocking boots with her hubby, so I can believe she was fully justified in her anger.

tooblue · 01-04-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblue

In my mind her unwillingness to move West had more to do with her desire to seek refuge from the unrelenting turmoil and trials of her life as the wife of the Prophet and less to do with her dislike of Brigham Young or a lack of a testimony etc.

You don't think Emma's disdain for polygamy had anything to do with Emma's decision not to follow Brigham Young?

I would include polygamy as one of the many trials that she wanted to get away from, but I do not believe it was the principle reason. I think it was much more an issue of pride than anything else.

UtahDan · 01-04-2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I just genuinely believe that she gets a pedestal more as a consequence that she is Joseph's wife and because we must convince ourselves that things were do difficult that her that she was unable to carry on carry on carry on.

I think most, if not all, of the women who travelled west to SLC faced the same challenges and many had endured similar trials. I wish not to denigrate Emma, but rather point out that there are examples of folks who endured likewise and yet we are more concerned with giving Emma the prestige.

I am sure she is solid and the reality is that if she does not end up in the Celestial Kingdom, I don't have a prayer. I just think there are others who demonstrated more fortitude and commitment to the entire cause, and not just the cause of Joseph, who we ignore to reinforce our artificial opinion of Emma.

I believe she had a deep disdain for Brigham Young and polygamy. That is a fact. I believe it played a huge role in her decision as her later involvement with the RLDS faith and its eschewing of all polygamy teachings indicates. I believe she was very attracted to her status as the Prophet's wife, or first one at least. She did not want to share that catbird seat with anyone. I can empathize with her not going west for a variety of reasons, but if Emma was such a chosen and elect lady of the Restored Gospel, why did she not teach it to her children? Not going west is actually understandable, but abdicating the religious principles that her husband gave his life to restore strikes me at odds with the romanticized picture we have of Emma.

I also think she kicked Eliza R. Snow's ass. But Eliza was knocking boots with her hubby, so I can believe she was fully justified in her anger.

Well stated. Lots of people have opinions about Emma but very few of them are very informed in my experience. Notwithstanding such want of knowledge, most of those people have a very strong opinion about her that IMO is almost completely a reflection of who they need her to be in order to fit her into their belief/non-belief system.

I personally think there are good reasons to resist deifying anyone because none are perfect but one. I also think that we often take "judge not" to mean only "don't condemn" when I think there is an equally important corrolary along the lines of "don't exalt." I'll straddle the fence and say that Emma is a good example of both good and bad behaviors.

All-American · 01-04-2006, 10:37 PM

If I were in the jury that decided if Emma should get in the Celestial kingdom or not, and was given no more information than that which I currently am aware of, I'd vote her in.

Take that for what it's worth though-- I don't know anybody that I wouldn't vote in. Except Col. Sanders.

Indy Coug · 01-04-2006, 10:42 PM

I don't pretend to know or understand Emma, her circumstances, nor her choices. All I know is that I hope she will be reunited with Joseph in the eternities because there is no doubt that they loved each other dearly.

Surfah · 01-05-2006, 05:35 AM

I too don't pretend to know the hardships of Emma or any of these early women saints. But didn't Joseph say if he had to go to the very depths of hell to save Emma he would. And I believe in JD Brigham Young said he'd have to.

01-04-2006, 09:09 PM	#1
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	emma smith....now i know on the other.... site this was discussed but i figured we could possibly discuss it here as we can be more open and candid... what are the haters problem with emma? why is her faith even questioned? how would it be, you are the wife of the prophet of the restoration, he says he speaks with god, has had angelic visits, translates plates of brass in your presence, organizes a church of people to usher in the second coming of christ, builds temples, cities, listens to your suggestions, helps organize a womens organization, performs miracles in your presence all the while taking on additional wives and possibly impregnanting other women and lying to you about it. is it possible her faith came to its ropes end? if in the same situation as her, would you stick around supporting the prophet?

01-04-2006, 09:54 PM	#5
Goatnapper'96 Recruiting Coordinator/Bosom Inspector Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,412	Emma is an enigma I just genuinely believe that she gets a pedestal more as a consequence that she is Joseph's wife and because we must convince ourselves that things were do difficult that her that she was unable to carry on carry on carry on. I think most, if not all, of the women who travelled west to SLC faced the same challenges and many had endured similar trials. I wish not to denigrate Emma, but rather point out that there are examples of folks who endured likewise and yet we are more concerned with giving Emma the prestige. I am sure she is solid and the reality is that if she does not end up in the Celestial Kingdom, I don't have a prayer. I just think there are others who demonstrated more fortitude and commitment to the entire cause, and not just the cause of Joseph, who we ignore to reinforce our artificial opinion of Emma. I believe she had a deep disdain for Brigham Young and polygamy. That is a fact. I believe it played a huge role in her decision as her later involvement with the RLDS faith and its eschewing of all polygamy teachings indicates. I believe she was very attracted to her status as the Prophet's wife, or first one at least. She did not want to share that catbird seat with anyone. I can empathize with her not going west for a variety of reasons, but if Emma was such a chosen and elect lady of the Restored Gospel, why did she not teach it to her children? Not going west is actually understandable, but abdicating the religious principles that her husband gave his life to restore strikes me at odds with the romanticized picture we have of Emma. I also think she kicked Eliza R. Snow's ass. But Eliza was knocking boots with her hubby, so I can believe she was fully justified in her anger. __________________ She had a psychiatrist who said because I didn't trust the water system, the school system, the government, I was paranoid," he said. "I had a psychiatrist who said her psychiatrist was stupid."

01-05-2006, 05:35 AM	#10
Surfah Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: F'burg, VA Posts: 3,211	I too don't pretend to know the hardships of Emma or any of these early women saints. But didn't Joseph say if he had to go to the very depths of hell to save Emma he would. And I believe in JD Brigham Young said he'd have to. __________________ Ernie Johnson: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort." Charles Barkley: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

01-04-2006, 09:21 PM	#2
tooblue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,016	I question the assertion that he lied to her. In my mind her unwillingness to move West had more to do with her desire to seek refuge from the unrelenting turmoil and trials of her life as the wife of the Prophet and less to do with her dislike of Brigham Young or a lack of faith etc. I always imagined that she might very well have thought; 'Joseph now has his peace, when will my peace come? Will death relieve me and my children of the burden of the restoration?' What's more had she gone West what would have been her role in the church ... As a woman she likely would have been relegated to a life irrelevancy and potentially even poverty. In my opinion she was in a no win situation and did what she felt was best for her and her children.

01-04-2006, 09:41 PM	#4
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	I have a lot of respect for Emma. She went through more persecution, agony and heartbreak than any of us. I can see why she wanted off of the rollercoaster and just sought peace and quiet.

01-04-2006, 10:37 PM	#8
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	If I were in the jury that decided if Emma should get in the Celestial kingdom or not, and was given no more information than that which I currently am aware of, I'd vote her in. Take that for what it's worth though-- I don't know anybody that I wouldn't vote in. Except Col. Sanders.

01-04-2006, 10:42 PM	#9
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	I don't pretend to know or understand Emma, her circumstances, nor her choices. All I know is that I hope she will be reunited with Joseph in the eternities because there is no doubt that they loved each other dearly.