Nicene Creeds: Origins?

[Archaea]

I know about Constantine setting up the conferences, but what about the theological debates during the conferences.

Does anybody have a good work that discusses what went on during those fourth century theological conferences.

I get my Church fathers mixed, so shoot me if I screw it up, but what were the beliefs as to God according to Origin, Jerome and others?

It seems odd that people now rely upon something that was dictated by an emperor wearing Sol Invictus to the conference. If Vladimir Putin or Hu JinTao dictated today a conference be convened to define a creed once and for all, how accurate do you believe the results would be?

[Archaea]

Here's an interesting link.

In one sense, Arius sounds somewhat akin to LDS theology.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine...andt/nicea.htm

I've forgotten all this stuff so apologies for whom this is secondhand, second rate information.

More links.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm

[All-American]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I know about Constantine setting up the conferences, but what about the theological debates during the conferences.

Does anybody have a good work that discusses what went on during those fourth century theological conferences.

I get my Church fathers mixed, so shoot me if I screw it up, but what were the beliefs as to God according to Origin, Jerome and others?

It seems odd that people now rely upon something that was dictated by an emperor wearing Sol Invictus to the conference. If Vladimir Putin or Hu JinTao dictated today a conference be convened to define a creed once and for all, how accurate do you believe the results would be?

Origen predates the council of Nice, and is most known for having established his school at Caesarea, where Eusebius would later become bishop. Origen believed that the Father and the Son were of seperate but alike substances-- homoiousia, to be distinguished from homoousia, to be of the same substance. Eusebius was an admirer of Origen and seemed to be a proponent of his teachings. The debate of the Nicene council was essentially between the ideas of homoousia and homoiousia; the fate of the world hung on a diphthong. You'll notice that the Nicene creed doesn't really solve the problem. Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, would eventually win out the politicking battle and homoiousia was made heretical by the Athanasian creed.

I don't know much about Jerome, save that he translated the Bible into the Latin Vulgate. He doesn't seem to have stirred up much controversy in his lifetime-- I doubt that he ventured far from the safe grounds plotted out by the creeds.

[All-American]

Here's a link to Origen's De Principiis. Book one, in particular, gives a good sense of his thoughts regarding the nature of God.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0412.htm

[Archaea]

The debate is interesting in that it sprung from a minority position of Arius and Athanasius and Eusebius holding the majority position.

Perhaps to creat controversy we could baptize for the dead, Marcion, Pelagius and Arius, creating a Church of Heretics.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I know about Constantine setting up the conferences, but what about the theological debates during the conferences.

Does anybody have a good work that discusses what went on during those fourth century theological conferences.

Arch, I recommend Roger Olsen's, The Story of Christian Theology: Twenty Centuries of Tradition & Reform. It covers much more than just the 4th century creeds, but it does include significant coverage of the development of the creeds and the players (like the Cappadocian Fathers and Athanasius).

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by All-American

I don't know much about Jerome, save that he translated the Bible into the Latin Vulgate. He doesn't seem to have stirred up much controversy in his lifetime-- I doubt that he ventured far from the safe grounds plotted out by the creeds.

AA, I think the main controversy that Jerome was involved with was the Pelagian controversy. He and Augustine were both strong critics of Pelagius. Augustine was no doubt more influential in terms of Pelagius' ulitmate branding as a heretic, but Jerome said some pretty nasty things about Pelagius.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by pelagius

AA, I think the main controversy that Jerome was involved with was the Pelagian controversy. He and Augustine were both strong critics of Pelagius. Augustine was no doubt more influential in terms of Pelagius' ulitmate branding as a heretic, but Jerome said some pretty nasty things about Pelagius.

Ah, you're just sticking up for your man.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by All-American

Ah, you're just sticking up for your man.

You got me. The acrimony wasn't exactly one sided.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I know about Constantine setting up the conferences, but what about the theological debates during the conferences.

Does anybody have a good work that discusses what went on during those fourth century theological conferences.

I get my Church fathers mixed, so shoot me if I screw it up, but what were the beliefs as to God according to Origin, Jerome and others?

It seems odd that people now rely upon something that was dictated by an emperor wearing Sol Invictus to the conference. If Vladimir Putin or Hu JinTao dictated today a conference be convened to define a creed once and for all, how accurate do you believe the results would be?

I have an absolutely first rate book on this that I highly recommend. I've poked around more than a bit and William Rusch's "The Trinitarian Controversy" is fantastic. It has correspondances of Arius, Athanasius, Alexander of Alexandria, the Synodal Letter from the Council of Antioch, Eusebius, the Gregories (of Nazianzus and Nyssa)...it's a great book. The introduction, which concisely but accurately presents the positions of the 2nd century fathers, the apologists, and of other major thinkers like Hippolytus, Tertullian, Novation, Eusebius, and of course Clement and Origen (all the way up to the fourth century debates, and even to Augustine) is worth the price of the book alone.

Get this book!