Unintended effects of LDS Church's Prop 8 involvement

[scottie]

Does anyone here (I see that marsupial does) have a family member/friend/close acquaintance (including yourself) whose testimony/support/faith of the LDS Church has been hampered by the Church's heavy backing of Prop 8? I do, and it's 100% not a case of "his/her testimony wasn't very strong to begin with" because it absolutely was.

[smokymountainrain]

Originally Posted by scottie

Does anyone here (I see that marsupial does) have a family member/friend/close acquaintance (including yourself) whose testimony/support/faith of the LDS Church has been hampered by the Church's heavy backing of Prop 8? I do, and it's 100% not a case of "his/her testimony wasn't very strong to begin with" because it absolutely was.

<raises hand>

That said, I have many more friends/family/aquaintances whose testimony/support/faith has been greatly increased by the church's backing on this issue.

As for me, nothing has changed with regard to how I feel about the LDS church or concerning my testimony of the restored gospel.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by scottie

Does anyone here (I see that marsupial does) have a family member/friend/close acquaintance (including yourself) whose testimony/support/faith of the LDS Church has been hampered by the Church's heavy backing of Prop 8? I do, and it's 100% not a case of "his/her testimony wasn't very strong to begin with" because it absolutely was.

Quite honestly I don't get it. What LDS Church have these folks shaken up by the LDS support of Prop 8 been attending? I don't pretend to know everyone's experiences but I can't fathom how anyone could be genuinely surprised by what occurred. High profile state issue in the state most likely to pass so the LDS Church uses the opportunity to take a stand. Mormons use the opportunity to demonstrate their devotion and their keen ability to leverage the imbedded organizational structure makes the mormon effort very effective. Most people thought the Yes on 8 didn't have a snowball's chance in hell and any objective analysis will conclude that the mormon influence on the election was fundamental to the vote. Now bitter losers are angry and lashing out at the organization whose effective influence carried the day. Personally, I don't like the LDS Church getting involved in political issues and I get uptight at eccelsiastical influence used to influence members to participate. I also don't like the self-aggrandizement of the wheat amongst us who see themselves as sifted from the tares over an issue that the overwhelming majority agreed with the LDS Church in the first place. However, I am not surprised at the stance the LDS Church took and I am not offended that the LDS Church had the audacity to do something with which I disagree. I think anyone relatively familiar with the LDS religion, and anyone with a testimony of it I would include in that group, who is surprised by the LDS position on marriage, or that the LDS Church occassionally makes forays into the political realm on an issue such as this, might be in a coma.

I am surprised at how effective those damned mormons were. In fact I have a sly grin at the power the mighty organization chose to swing. Disagree with the Church's position or disagree with the Church's foray into politics, but damn one has got to be impressed with the influence the Church had. I am not referring to the mobilizing members to vote, I am referring to mobilizing the Yes vote, of whom the LDS demagrapic is likely a small minority.

My apologies to those who got shaken up that the LDS Church feels strongly about traditional marriage or that the LDS Church jumps into political issues on occassion. Perhaps a refresher course on LDS beliefs and LDS history might help them to see that this was not an enormous straying from previous policy.

The loss of testimony of faithful members over this issue is best explained by Archaea's lack of innoculation theory, best I can tell.

[scottie]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Quite honestly I don't get it. What LDS Church have these folks shaken up by the LDS support of Prop 8 been attending? I don't pretend to know everyone's experiences but I can't fathom how anyone could be genuinely surprised by what occurred. High profile state issue in the state most likely to pass so the LDS Church uses the opportunity to take a stand. Mormons use the opportunity to demonstrate their devotion and their keen ability to leverage the imbedded organizational structure makes the mormon effort very effective. Most people thought the Yes on 8 didn't have a snowball's chance in hell and any objective analysis will conclude that the mormon influence on the election was fundamental to the vote. Now bitter losers are angry and lashing out at the organization whose effective influence carried the day. Personally, I don't like the LDS Church getting involved in political issues and I get uptight at eccelsiastical influence used to influence members to participate. I also don't like the self-aggrandizement of the wheat amongst us who see themselves as sifted from the tares over an issue that the overwhelming majority agreed with the LDS Church in the first place. However, I am not surprised at the stance the LDS Church took and I am not offended that the LDS Church had the audacity to do something with which I disagree. I think anyone relatively familiar with the LDS religion, and anyone with a testimony of it I would include in that group, who is surprised by the LDS position on marriage, or that the LDS Church occassionally makes forays into the political realm on an issue such as this, might be in a coma.

I am surprised at how effective those damned mormons were. In fact I have a sly grin at the power the mighty organization chose to swing. Disagree with the Church's position or disagree with the Church's foray into politics, but damn one has got to be impressed with the influence the Church had. I am not referring to the mobilizing members to vote, I am referring to mobilizing the Yes vote, of whom the LDS demagrapic is likely a small minority.

My apologies to those who got shaken up that the LDS Church feels strongly about traditional marriage or that the LDS Church jumps into political issues on occassion. Perhaps a refresher course on LDS beliefs and LDS history might help them to see that this was not an enormous straying from previous policy.

The loss of testimony of faithful members over this issue is best explained by Archaea's lack of innoculation theory, best I can tell.

It would appear that you do get it.

And what other political issues are you referring to that the LDS Church has jumped into like Prop 8?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by scottie

It would appear that you do get it.

And what other political issues are you referring to that the LDS Church has jumped into like Prop 8?

The M/X Missile project, a liberal cause celebre. It was impressive as well, derailing what a popular president wanted to do.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by scottie

It would appear that you do get it.

And what other political issues are you referring to that the LDS Church has jumped into like Prop 8?

Malt liquor versus beer in Utah grocery stores, ERA, Idaho lottery, Prohibition...

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The M/X Missile project, a liberal cause celebre. It was impressive as well, derailing what a popular president wanted to do.

And nobody bitched about that involvement.

Interesting, no?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by scottie

Does anyone here (I see that marsupial does) have a family member/friend/close acquaintance (including yourself) whose testimony/support/faith of the LDS Church has been hampered by the Church's heavy backing of Prop 8? I do, and it's 100% not a case of "his/her testimony wasn't very strong to begin with" because it absolutely was.

How do you know it was either unintended, as you say, or unexpected, as you imply?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Malt liquor versus beer in Utah grocery stores, ERA, Idaho lottery, Prohibition...

airline deregulation, peri-mutuel betting, etc....

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Archaea

The M/X Missile project, a liberal cause celebre. It was impressive as well, derailing what a popular president wanted to do.

??

Kimball was against the M/X missile project, a position that ran counter to conservative hawks at the time. But the extent of the church's effort was a First Presidency statement and little more. Not even close to the prop 8 case.