Remarkable New Yorker article re Iraq and Obama

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You mean like Americans didn't want us to get involved in the Battle of Britain?

The debate about whether or not we should be involved in the war in Iraq is wholly separate from whether or not pushing for withdrawal will hurt Obama politically (which is the point you originally raised).

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I saw it and passed, but thank you. I don't see the point of this:

Anyone: Look how Obama has flipped on the war.
Cali: No, he's saying basically what he has said all along. He's showing real leadership by being flexible.
Anyone: But wait, he ran to the far left during the primary promising a 16 month withdrawal timetable.
Cali: No, he's saying basically what he has said all along. He's showing real leadership by being flexible.
Anyone: It's basically the Bush policy, without telling the insurgents/terrorists when we will leave.
Cali: No, he's saying basically what he has said all along. He's showing real leadership by being flexible.
Anybody: Okay, I get it, Obama is sinless.
Cali: No, he's saying basically what he has said all along. He's showing real leadership by being flexible.
Anybody: I can't wait for football season to begin.
Cali: No, he's saying basically what he has said all along. He's showing real leadership by being flexible.
Anybody: I'm going home now.
Cali: No, he's saying basically what he has said all along. He's showing real leadership by being flexible.

Then Tex cuts in and he and Cali dance the night away.

Once we have the Cali-Tex dance of death, the debate dissolves.

Of course, it's impossible to discuss the foibles of Obama with Cali, as he is a man without blemish to Cali, Sieg Heil, all hail Obama.

[il Padrino Ute]

Obama is a typical politician. He'll say whatever is politically expedient in order to get elected.

Only foolish sycophants believe he is being consistent in his messages.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Is this article supposed to be inconsistent with Packer's? Because it's not. Have the Iraqis said, "Great idea Obama, be totally gone from here in 16 months come what may. Start ratcheting down monthly starting January 09."

Yup.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...566841,00.html

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Yup.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...566841,00.html

Because the U.S. is winning now. It's all consistent.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tex

You're skewing the polls, as usual. It's true the majority in current polls indicate that the war is unpopular, and that think it was a mistake. The picture on withdrawal is far less clear ... people are not so eager to leave if they think it represents an American loss.

The best characterization of public opinion of the war is that Americans are conflicted.

What is the basis for your second assertion? Are there myriad polls addressing the "do you want us to leave if it means a loss?"

[BarbaraGordon]

Okay, I so swore I would not post on politics but I can't help it.

1. if you look beyond the headlines, there are pretty good indications that "the tide has turned" storyline is pretty much a ruse.
2. Even so, I do think, and I believe Seattle and I have discussed this in the past, that Obama backed himself in a corner early on by assuming that the state of Iraq in 2006 would remain the state of Iraq through 2008, and by providing too many specifics, guarantees, deadlines, promises, etc in his proposals for the war. If Obama is elected, Iraq will be come his "no new taxes."
3. Fifteen months later, Tex is still trolling for Cali regarding Obama. That's what I call persistence.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Okay, I so swore I would not post on politics but I can't help it.

1. if you look beyond the headlines, there are pretty good indications that "the tide has turned" storyline is pretty much a ruse.
2. Even so, I do think, and I believe Seattle and I have discussed this in the past, that Obama backed himself in a corner early on by assuming that the state of Iraq in 2006 would remain the state of Iraq through 2008, and by providing too many specifics, guarantees, deadlines, promises, etc in his proposals for the war. If Obama is elected, Iraq will be come his "no new taxes."
3. Fifteen months later, Tex is still trolling for Cali regarding Obama. That's what I call persistence.

Cali is an easy trolling target, as he worships Obama. He should be trolled.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Cali is an easy trolling target, as he worships Obama. He should be trolled.

This is the same reason I troll IPU with respect to gay porn.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Because the U.S. is winning now. It's all consistent.

Don't honestly care if it is consistent with Packer. More interested in helping you find an answer to your question in the last sentence of your post I quoted.