Intervention show--gay LDS guy

[jay santos]

Interesting episode of Intervention last night, apparently a rerun from a couple years ago. Troy, a straight A student from Idaho Falls. Went to BYU, discovered he was gay. Left BYU for USC. Got heavy into acting out in the gay lifestyle and in drugs. He had sex with so many guys he had no idea how many it was. Said he had 20 in one night. Would stay on a meth high for week at a time. Never used protection. Also implied his actions were very typical for the gay community. Ended up taking an HIV test in treatment that was positive. Very very sad story. Here's a summary from an Idaho Falls paper.

http://idahofallz.com/2006/01/12/bon...rvention-show/

A few thoughts.

1. He showed the most emotion of the entire show when he said it was really really hard to realize you're gay as a Mormon. I believe we can definitely do better as a church to give comfort and hope to gay members.

2. Butterfly Effect principle. Hard to believe a deep concept can come out of anything related to Ashton Kutcher, but this is deep. I dare say you put any of the brethren in that kid's shoes: father dead at age two, overbearing mom, molested by male and female at young age, raised in Idaho, inclination to dancing, introduction to drugs and gay lifestyle at right/wrong time, and you get this kid. You don't get a member of the 12, that's for sure. You put this kid from Intervention in the upraising one of the 12 had, and maybe you get an apostle. How does this principle relate to our obsession on works/worthiness/church discipline/etc.?

3. I have compassion for gay people. I want to trust them and take them at face value when they speak of gay rights and how they want to be viewed in society. However, there seems to be a real darkness about the gay lifestyle, promiscuous sex, drugs, acting out of childhood pain, dangerous risky sex, multiple meaningless partners. Part of me wants to be tolerant and acknowledge gay lifestyle as legitimate and be happy for them finding joy and happiness however they want to find it. Part of me wants to hold on to the traditional Christian view that homosexuality is an abomination and scourge, which we should try to fight against as if it's a war for the souls of those who struggle with that sin, because it's the LOVING thing to do, because these people clearly are not happy and leaving the lifestyle is a step towards recovery and happiness.

[MikeWaters]

FYI, as soon as you say "gay lifestyle" you are considered a bigot by gays.

It's like saying "coloreds" when talking about blacks.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

FYI, as soon as you say "gay lifestyle" you are considered a bigot by gays.

It's like saying "coloreds" when talking about blacks.

I'm aware I'm probably not PC. I'm evolving. I'll try to do better. But I think people are smart enough to know the true racism/bigotry is in the maliciousness of one's intent not in the language.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I'm aware I'm probably not PC. I'm evolving. I'll try to do better. But I think people are smart enough to know the true racism/bigotry is in the maliciousness of one's intent not in the language.

language always betrays what's on the inside. when you say "gay lifestyle" you are a making a sweeping generalization that offends many gays. They will say "there is no 'gay lifestyle.' There are all kinds of gays. Is there a 'straight lifestyle'?"

The phrase 'gay lifestyle' is used by right-wing conservatives and evangelicals to condemn gays. So it's a very loaded phrase.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Interesting episode of Intervention last night, apparently a rerun from a couple years ago. Troy, a straight A student from Idaho Falls. Went to BYU, discovered he was gay. Left BYU for USC. Got heavy into acting out in the gay lifestyle and in drugs. He had sex with so many guys he had no idea how many it was. Said he had 20 in one night. Would stay on a meth high for week at a time. Never used protection. Also implied his actions were very typical for the gay community. Ended up taking an HIV test in treatment that was positive. Very very sad story. Here's a summary from an Idaho Falls paper.

http://idahofallz.com/2006/01/12/bon...rvention-show/

A few thoughts.

1. He showed the most emotion of the entire show when he said it was really really hard to realize you're gay as a Mormon. I believe we can definitely do better as a church to give comfort and hope to gay members.

2. Butterfly Effect principle. Hard to believe a deep concept can come out of anything related to Ashton Kutcher, but this is deep. I dare say you put any of the brethren in that kid's shoes: father dead at age two, overbearing mom, molested by male and female at young age, raised in Idaho, inclination to dancing, introduction to drugs and gay lifestyle at right/wrong time, and you get this kid. You don't get a member of the 12, that's for sure. You put this kid from Intervention in the upraising one of the 12 had, and maybe you get an apostle. How does this principle relate to our obsession on works/worthiness/church discipline/etc.?

3. I have compassion for gay people. I want to trust them and take them at face value when they speak of gay rights and how they want to be viewed in society. However, there seems to be a real darkness about the gay lifestyle, promiscuous sex, drugs, acting out of childhood pain, dangerous risky sex, multiple meaningless partners. Part of me wants to be tolerant and acknowledge gay lifestyle as legitimate and be happy for them finding joy and happiness however they want to find it. Part of me wants to hold on to the traditional Christian view that homosexuality is an abomination and scourge, which we should try to fight against as if it's a war for the souls of those who struggle with that sin, because it's the LOVING thing to do, because these people clearly are not happy and leaving the lifestyle is a step towards recovery and happiness.

Do you feel like homosexuals are born "gay"? I certainly do (and a whole lot of research supports it). Yet, your second point seems to counter this.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

FYI, as soon as you say "gay lifestyle" you are considered a bigot by gays.

It's like saying "coloreds" when talking about blacks.

It may be but it's difficult for those of us with little or no connection to the community to understand their sociology.

Jay says he has compassion for gays, whereas, if I look to myself candidly, have no connection to something I find completely alien. I simply cannot relate or connect to it.

And there is not one gay community, but there is a dominant political and social gay network, where certain activities are allowed and expressed. So those of us who are completely disconnected from the community, "gay lifestyle" means "licentious" for it signifies rampant unprotected sex with multiple simultaneous partners and illicit drug use. People or subcultures constantly take offense when these subcultures do little to clean up their communities or image other than to simply go on the attack.

[BoylenOver]

Originally Posted by jay santos

3. I have compassion for gay people. I want to trust them and take them at face value when they speak of gay rights and how they want to be viewed in society. However, there seems to be a real darkness about the gay lifestyle, promiscuous sex, drugs, acting out of childhood pain, dangerous risky sex, multiple meaningless partners. Part of me wants to be tolerant and acknowledge gay lifestyle as legitimate and be happy for them finding joy and happiness however they want to find it. Part of me wants to hold on to the traditional Christian view that homosexuality is an abomination and scourge, which we should try to fight against as if it's a war for the souls of those who struggle with that sin, because it's the LOVING thing to do, because these people clearly are not happy and leaving the lifestyle is a step towards recovery and happiness.

MW has already addressed it, but drugs and promiscuous sex don't define the lifestyle of every homosexual. Just like the gang lifestyle doesn't define every urban youth's existence, or the clean-cut lifestyle doesn't define every Caucasian male in Utah County.

I'm a huge proponent of gay rights and equality, but I must admit I get very uncomfortable whenever a guy hits on me.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

language always betrays what's on the inside.

I agree with this. In this case, I would say language betrays my ignorance or inexperience on the explosiveness of the issue and that word not any malice. I would feel pretty comfortable talking with a gay person on this subject without him thinking I was a jerk bigot.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

language always betrays what's on the inside. when you say "gay lifestyle" you are a making a sweeping generalization that offends many gays. They will say "there is no 'gay lifestyle.' There are all kinds of gays. Is there a 'straight lifestyle'?"

The phrase 'gay lifestyle' is used by right-wing conservatives and evangelicals to condemn gays. So it's a very loaded phrase.

It's also used by persons disconnected from the gay community or communities. There is a subcurrent of unhealthy activities among a certain segment of the gay community. If you doubt this, research the activities within the CDC or NIH.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by BoylenOver

I'm a huge proponent of gay rights and equality, but I must admit I get very uncomfortable whenever a guy hits on me.

Stay away from UteStar when you see him on the pirate ship.