Black and Mormon

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I agree that were not progressive as a people on thes issues and one can certainly make a good argument that we should be but doesn't Mauss' survey data suggest that we don't tend to suffer from a extreme or obvious racial bias.

I haven't seen the data, so I can't comment on it.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

To make the argument linking this verse to the ban, one would also have to connect blacks with Cain.

I entirely agree with you Jeff. There is no reason to do this. Even a very literal reading of the verse doesn't in anyway support this connection. However, my question is whether a typical member just naturally connects them? BYU71 and Jay said nobody does this anymore. I hope that is true but I remain skeptical.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Know I don't think so at all. Where do Mormons stand on civil rights now? They certainly don't lead up the charge. SU has pointed out that the Jews have reacted to the persecution they have faced, by defending others.

Mormons, on the other hand, have reacted by piling on. Look at the way LDS have treated fLDS. Look at the way LDS goes after gay groups. Look how Mormons vote for far-right conservatives seemingly en bloc.

The idea that there is any kind of "awakening" or "enlightenment" among Mormons regarding race, and everything around race, is complete hogwash.

I will both agree and disagree with this statement. Mauss shows data in his essay indicating that LDS are less racist than your average US citizen based on traditional measures. However, I will agree with you that in spite our history we often tend to show precious little sensitivity or sympathy for the plight of the minority or persecuted. We usually root for "the man".

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I will both agree and disagree with this statement. Mauss shows data in his essay indicating that LDS are less racist than your average US citizen based on traditional measures. However, I will agree with you that in spite our history we often tend to show precious little sensitivity or sympathy for the plight of the minority or persecuted. We usually root for "the man".

what kind of data is this? what does it adjust for?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by K-dog

I think not addressing this is a huge PR nightmare. I don't know much about PR but what I know is this:

If you refuse to address a subject, the only voice heard, and therefore believed, is your opponents voice.

By not addressing the folklore, the GAs are allowing the antis to define why the ban was in place. Huge mistake.

Maybe it's just that I don't live in Utah, but another lesson in PR I've learned is, if your opponent's voice is a whole lot smaller than yours, be careful when and how you choose to speak.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I haven't seen the data, so I can't comment on it.

Example:

LDS
72-80: 30% either agreed strongly or slightly agreed that whites have a right to segregated neighborhoods
81-88: 20%
89-96: 10%

Other:
72-80: 37%
81-88: 23%
89-96: 17%

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I haven't seen the data, so I can't comment on it.

Come on, Mike. I am reading the book on your recommendation, buddy.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Example:

LDS
72-80: 30% either agreed strongly or slightly agreed that whites have a right to segregated neighborhoods
81-88: 20%
89-96: 10%

Other:
72-80: 37%
81-88: 23%
89-96: 17%

So this is just a raw score, not adjusted for age, race, education, or income?

How useful is that, in your opinion?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The notion that "God" allowed blacks to finally receive the priesthood per a revelation he gave to SWK ensures that most LDS will continue to regard blacks the same as they did before 1978. The first order of business is to renounce any claim to revelation.

This comes back to how one defines "revelation", I suppose. Many members probably imagine SWK sitting in his office and getting a direct revelation from God that it was time for a change. He then announces it to the world and everyone is happy. As Adam has explained before, SWK spent many months working behind the scenes to convince the quorum that it was time for a change. He did not want to make the change until everyone was on board. Once that was accomplished, the FP and the twelve reportedly experienced an overwhelmingly powerful spiritual witness that they had made the right decision.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I agree that we're not progressive as a people on these issues and one can certainly make a good argument that we should be but doesn't Mauss' survey data suggest that we don't tend to suffer from a extreme or obvious racial bias.

One explanation could be that much of the US's LDS population is centered in the west - an area historically less racist than the rest of the country (for a variety of reasons).