Delbert L. Stapley Letter

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

What do you think? It looks to me like Apostle Stapely is citing Joseph Smith's sayings as his authority. Contending that all black slaves should be sent back to their ancestral aboriginal villages wasn't exactly the enlightened view leading up to the Civil War, now was it. Moreover, what a curious position for the self-proclaimed prophet of the only true church to take, that all these people should be put our of reach of said church. Face it, JS was a racist as well as a philanderer and molester of under-aged girls.

From everything I have seen, it appears that BY was the source of the ban. Yes, Stapley cited JS as his ultimate authority, but I think he made an awfully weak case. In the end, I don't think it matters a great deal whether it was JS or BY. I think it was wrong either way. Thus, I find your eagerness to pin the ban on JS quite puzzling. Perhaps you and Stapley are motived by the same logic. Connect the dots to JS and you have some kind of trump card.

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I agree the letter speaks for itself. I'm not editorializing or elucidating. I have a simple desire: That the LDS Church forthrightly address this issue, and express genuine regret. Until it does, it hasn't put its racist past behind it.

Haven't you noticed that you are largely preaching to the choir on this point?

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

As for my saying that Stapely was not a stupid man, bear in mind that my standard was very low. I said his letter was reasonably well written and he understood the arguments pro and con the 1964 Civil Rights Act. What I meant, implicitly, is that the kind of blind faith and crude racism he was expressing, includng stating that the civil rights proponent he knew was drowned by God, was the kind of drivel one would expect from an illiterate hunter gatherer in the bayous. Except for the racist content of his letter, his letter did not seem to be written by an uneducated or uninformed man.

I see your point. I just think it is weak. As you well know, there were lots of highly educated and literate folks supporting slavery back in the civil war era. And many of our nation's founders were brilliant men and slaveholders at the same time. Racism permeates all levels of society.

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

He's your apostle. Why does it make you feel better to dismiss him as an ignoramus? Fawn Brody comments on this. The curious propensity of Mormons to excuse their leaders' bad behavior, particularly Joseph Smith's, or to try to exaggerate their achievements such as writing the Book of Mormon, by highlighting their purported lack of education or intelligence.

I am not making excuses of any kind for Stapley's behavior. I just find some irony in your eagerness to point out his high IQ.

[SeattleUte]

Does anyone find it interesting that apparently Romney or his family disregarded Stapely's request of confidentiality and released this letter to the public? Was the comment/gloss that Romney Sr. stepped up his support for Civil Rights in the following months provided by the Romneys? They do seem to be more interested in distancing themselves from the Church than protecting it.

[Jim Swarthout]

In case you haven't read seen it yet, here's a link to the booklet Stapley refers to:

http://celestial-orb.org/library/mormon_negro.html

If you think the Stapley letter was bad, read this. Sheesh.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Jim Swarthout

In case you haven't read seen it yet, here's a link to the booklet Stapley refers to:

http://celestial-orb.org/library/mormon_negro.html

If you think the Stapley letter was bad, read this. Sheesh.

This is how a lot of current "fundamentalists" within the church treat any subject someone brings up and questions.

Basically the answer is, if you question you are not a faithful member of the church.

On this board questions about our faith are discussed. See how often on CB Cougarguard is referred to as a radical fringe wing of mormons. If you question, you are automatically a threat to some.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Jim Swarthout

In case you haven't read seen it yet, here's a link to the booklet Stapley refers to:

http://celestial-orb.org/library/mormon_negro.html

If you think the Stapley letter was bad, read this. Sheesh.

Are you sure this is the same one? I thought he was referring to a pamphelet written by Mark E Peterson, which I recall reading and being surprised by when I was a boy.

[OrangeUte]

I am sure many of you have already read this compilation, but I found that this compliation of essays on this issue is very good. I used to have a hard-bound copy, but it looks like it is online. It is Lester Bush's (editor) "Neither Black nor White..." collection of academic articles on the priesthood ban.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...itle.htm#black

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

I am sure many of you have already read this compilation, but I found that this compliation of essays on this issue is very good. I used to have a hard-bound copy, but it looks like it is online. It is Lester Bush's (editor) "Neither Black nor White..." collection of academic articles on the priesthood ban.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...itle.htm#black

SIEQ may want to correct me, but I think in some respects this is dated (23 years old). Good but dated. I know the new "Black and Mormon" compilation addresses the overall arguments and their context.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

SIEQ may want to correct me, but I think in some respects this is dated (23 years old). Good but dated. I know the new "Black and Mormon" compilation addresses the overall arguments and their context.

i would imagine that there has been much more historical development on the issue from the time it was first published.

I will check out the compilation you suggest.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

i would imagine that there has been much more historical development on the issue from the time it was first published.

I will check out the compilation you suggest.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthr...on+black+smith

I've started reading it.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

I am sure many of you have already read this compilation, but I found that this compliation of essays on this issue is very good. I used to have a hard-bound copy, but it looks like it is online. It is Lester Bush's (editor) "Neither Black nor White..." collection of academic articles on the priesthood ban.

http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org...itle.htm#black

I don't expect I'll read this. Too many words. Why is this so complicated? They were racists. They hated. The doctrinal explanation has been kicking around since the Middle Ages, and is wholly uninteresting.