I listened to the Beck talk again

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Archaea

We have some bright women, why not use them, especially the single sisters who aren't married and having children as they should.

Amen Brother. I too listened again to Sister Beck's talk last night. As a single woman, she came across as condescending and demeaning. As she so blithely stated "we need to make our homes like mini-MTC's...", I could not help but think she is very isolated and parochial and no doubt a product of that environment.

Tex and Indy: before you commence your personal attacks, remember that, like you, I am a product of my upbringing. I still have two younger siblings at home being raised by a widowed mother who (insert gasp) works outside the home as a college professor. Typical of wards in Sandy, UT, my mother is outside the mainstream because she is single and works. Her last home teaching visit was in 2004 and this is not because she is not receptive. The list goes on and on but you can bet her quiet faith is exercised every day in her service, temple attendance, activity and devotion to her family and church. Where in Sister Beck's talk was there any attempt to reach out to her? Sorry not to follow your "the Church is always right" party line, but God gave me a brain.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This implies that you don't get what Beck is preaching. It's impossible for you to believe that the best and the brightest and extraordinary would be at home raising kids.

There are some very bright women, who stay home, ignore their education and perform beyond admirably. I do not doubt it.

And there are women who in such circumstances find ways to sharpen their intellects without formal education, I do not doubt it.

However, if I were a woman, I'm not bright enough that my intellect would be adequately sharpened without formal education and without the stresses of the workplace. Whether I'm a better or worse person because of it, who knows. But my skills are sharpened through the choices I've made.

Many of our women have less sharp skills because of the choices they've made. I don't accept Beck's premise that the best place for all women is in the home. Some may find it the best place if circumstances permit, but many may not. Perhaps all need some of the rigors afforded them by academia and by the workplace. If all women ran businesses and understood marketplace economics, would they be better at managing home finances?

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Socal, why do you think it was unintentional?

I put you in the subconscious camp. But when you think about it, to say it was subconscious is to insult her a bit. That she is not very self-aware.

Because I believe I understand the point of her talk, and it wasn't to heap guilt on women who are trying their best but don't believe they measure up to the super-moms they may believe exist.

I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism. I see a lot of attorneys, who have a post-graduate degree (i.e., lots of education and training) who are not particularly self-aware, and make unintentionally poor arguments.

I guess the bottom line is that I really hope she wasn't trying to make that point, so I give her the benefit of the doubt and assume it's unintentional.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Amen Brother. I too listened again to Sister Beck's talk last night. As a single woman, she came across as condescending and demeaning. As she so blithely stated "we need to make our homes like mini-MTC's...", I could not help but think she is very isolated and parochial and no doubt a product of that environment.

Tex and Indy: before you commence your personal attacks, remember that, like you, I am a product of my upbringing. I still have two younger siblings at home being raised by a widowed mother who (insert gasp) works outside the home as a college professor. Typical of wards in Sandy, UT, my mother is outside the mainstream because she is single and works. Her last home teaching visit was in 2004 and this is not because she is not receptive. The list goes on and on but you can bet her quiet faith is exercised every day in her service, temple attendance, activity and devotion to her family and church. Where in Sister Beck's talk was there any attempt to reach out to her? Sorry not to follow your "the Church is always right" party line, but God gave me a brain.

That's just it, Requiem. This is the thing you are not comprehending. Beck's talk WASN'T addressed to her, for crying out loud. Your mother is perfectly fine to listen to the talk, take away from it what she can, and to the rest say, "for me that's not possible."

Tell me, have you ever heard a talk from a general authority or officer addressed to women in your mother's situation? If you haven't, then like Mike Waters, you haven't been listening. It is not Sister Beck's responsibility to add a little asterisk to every talk she gives saying, "If this doesn't apply to you, please ignore."

What about the hundreds of worthy young men who are incapable of serving a mission because of physical or mental disabilities? Should THEY walk around each General Conference with a chip on their shoulder, getting offended everytime someone urges all worthy young men to serve?

And please stop with the "woe is me, I have a brain" stuff.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Amen Brother. I too listened again to Sister Beck's talk last night. As a single woman, she came across as condescending and demeaning. As she so blithely stated "we need to make our homes like mini-MTC's...", I could not help but think she is very isolated and parochial and no doubt a product of that environment.

Tex and Indy: before you commence your personal attacks, remember that, like you, I am a product of my upbringing. I still have two younger siblings at home being raised by a widowed mother who (insert gasp) works outside the home as a college professor. Typical of wards in Sandy, UT, my mother is outside the mainstream because she is single and works. Her last home teaching visit was in 2004 and this is not because she is not receptive. The list goes on and on but you can bet her quiet faith is exercised every day in her service, temple attendance, activity and devotion to her family and church. Where in Sister Beck's talk was there any attempt to reach out to her? Sorry not to follow your "the Church is always right" party line, but God gave me a brain.

Personal attacks? In the past with you, I've tried asking legitimate questions only to get huffy responses from you which eventually devolve into you attacking me.

President Hinckley has led the way, IMO, in recognizing the hard realities of the working mother. He and many others have given very good talks on the subject. Just because Sister Beck's talk in your view didn't amount to some sort of collective global feminine affirmation doesn't mean that the church isn't reaching out to your mother and many others. Can it improve in this regard? Undoubtedly.

I could relate to you the reaction of my wife's friends (most of whom work, a couple which are single) to the talk, but you'd probably just reply with telling me to wear a dress for 3 months.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Amen Brother. I too listened again to Sister Beck's talk last night. As a single woman, she came across as condescending and demeaning. As she so blithely stated "we need to make our homes like mini-MTC's...", I could not help but think she is very isolated and parochial and no doubt a product of that environment.

Tex and Indy: before you commence your personal attacks, remember that, like you, I am a product of my upbringing. I still have two younger siblings at home being raised by a widowed mother who (insert gasp) works outside the home as a college professor. Typical of wards in Sandy, UT, my mother is outside the mainstream because she is single and works. Her last home teaching visit was in 2004 and this is not because she is not receptive. The list goes on and on but you can bet her quiet faith is exercised every day in her service, temple attendance, activity and devotion to her family and church. Where in Sister Beck's talk was there any attempt to reach out to her? Sorry not to follow your "the Church is always right" party line, but God gave me a brain.

1. When I rewatched the talk last night I specifically looked for whether or not she addressed non-mothers. She did. She made a point to talk about how all women should honor the role of a mother and the concept of nurturting whether they are mothers or not, and in the hereafter they will all have the same blessings. Maybe it didn't appease you, but she did address single women.

2. It sounds like your mother was a great example of Beck's talk, providing nurturing and a safe home environment for her kids.

3. I think you might have a misunderstanding on your family's home teaching record. Widowed sisters especially with kids in the home are the #1 priority for any bishop to make sure they are home taught and other needs looked after. There must be more to the story or some kind of miscommunication if she hasn't been taught.

4. I'm not a single female, so I can't judge you for how you took Beck's talk. I agree if a large number of single females were offended, then she probably could have delivered it better.

[MikeWaters]

The MTC statement by her is not surprising given that was her life has been. She is the daughter of a mission president. She grew up in part internationally as a result. She and her husband have worked in the MTC. So for her, it is a literal statement. Not a theoretical one.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

This implies that you don't get what Beck is preaching. It's impossible for you to believe that the best and the brightest and extraordinary would be at home raising kids.

I am not going to be as harsh on the lady as Arch is. In mormondom she is quite an accomplished lady. There is nothing wrong in my mind with being accomplished in mormondom either.

Her perspective on things is quite narrow. It will be interesting to see if as she grows in the position and as she meets other sisters in the church, she maintains a hard line or her perspective on things change.

I asked my brother what his wife thought of the talk. He said first she didn't hear it. Then he said, oh yea she did. She was in the Primary leadership in Alpine and ruffled some feathers and so my SIL really didn't pay attention to what she said.

I should say this. I dont' think it is all that unusual for a leader to ruffle the feathers of someone.

I am not giving her talk a real good grade, but as far as the woman goes I have no reason to think she isn't a first rate person.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The MTC statement by her is not surprising given that was her life has been. She is the daughter of a mission president. She grew up in part internationally as a result. She and her husband have worked in the MTC. So for her, it is a literal statement. Not a theoretical one.

Also, I don't think this statement is all that outrageous. Is it really so unthinkable to counsel parents to teach their children the doctrine, such that when they enter the MTC, it is, as she said, review and not "revelation"?

It's not like they're teaching Adam-God and Blood Atonement in there ... it's the very basics of the gospel. Why is that such unreasonable counsel?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by jay santos

4. I'm not a single female, so I can't judge you for how you took Beck's talk. I agree if a large number of single females were offended, then she probably could have delivered it better.

This is a great point. How can we as married men tell women how they should emotionally react to anything. Emotions frequently arise out preconditions which are peculiar to the individual. For us to predict or to dictate which emotive response somebody not of our gender to have, means we should be acquainted with all circumstances leading up to the reaction. It seems very pedantic for men to say, "you single sisters shouldn't get upset with Sister Beck." Perhaps just a little understanding as you have exhibited. And I know my level of understanding women is at the low end of the gene pool, so I can take lessons from everybody in this regard.