Let's stop beating around the bush

[MikeWaters]

My position has changed as well. What was once a vague apprehension about the church's arguments has become something much stronger than that, esp. after the news release showed the church to have no special insight, but producing the rehashed garbage of the evangelicals, et al.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

and talk about the more core issue explaining why the church opposes gay marriage: it is the same reason that the church opposes civil unions for gays.

Now the trick is to explain why the church opposes civil unions for gays. And also why in its recent press release, it pretended to NOT oppose them.

Now we all know that the apologists are having a dickens of a time explaining the church's opposition to gay marriage. How the hell are they supposed to explain opposition to civil unions? But I know we have a few enterprising apologists here, so maybe one of you is up to the challenge of explaining why all must rise up against civil unions.

it is in direct opposition to what the 1st Presidency has duped us into believing what they wrote in the Proclamation. Just a bunch of old white guys who have an agenda, I suppose. Is that YOUR point?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by exUte

it is in direct opposition to what the 1st Presidency has duped us into believing what they wrote in the Proclamation. Just a bunch of old white guys who have an agenda, I suppose. Is that YOUR point?

If I believed all the stuff written in the press release, and prayed if I should stand up and fight for the stuff there, I'm pretty sure the answer would be "yes".

However this is a lot of stuff written in there that is undefended, implausible, and just plain false.

Regardless of whether the FP is doing the right thing on this issue, I think they have the right intentions, i.e. they are not purposefully committing any evil.

ETB in all his wacky craziness probably had good intentions. Delbert Stapely probably really thought he was helping Mitt Romney's dad find spiritual truth when he wrote him. Etc, etc.

Generally speaking, I have good intentions as well. Maybe you are right. Maybe I am as misguided as ETB and Delbert Stapely were at times. I suppose time will tell.