05-03-2006, 10:32 PM | #11 | |
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And Hitler wasn't guilty of anything until he invaded Czechoslovakia. Everything before that was just politics. Tim
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05-03-2006, 10:52 PM | #12 |
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Down with liberals.
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05-03-2006, 10:54 PM | #13 | ||
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I said not really. I need to make a list of people who pull stuff out of their ass and claim I said it. Quote:
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05-04-2006, 01:39 AM | #14 | |
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05-04-2006, 01:45 AM | #15 | |
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05-04-2006, 01:49 AM | #16 | |
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Tim
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05-04-2006, 02:07 AM | #17 | |
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05-04-2006, 02:21 AM | #18 | |
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Another nation states its intention to attack you or your ally, and you can lower the net loss of life through pre-emption or gain strategic advantage in the coming fight. A man places his hand on the gun in his waistband and declares his intention to shoot you or your wife. You don't wait for him to draw, you presume he will do as he has said and you shoot first. This way only he dies. If you wait for him to shoot your wife before you kill him, two people are dead. Minimally, you place him in a defensive posture. The rejoinder, of course, is that it may turn out that that gun in his waist band was a squirt gun. But in the case where he makes the threat and you cannot be certain about what is in the waist band, he creates the peril and assumes the risk of your mistake. Actually, this is very nearly where Israel is with Iran. Iran is openly developing nukes and has stated its intention to use them to annihilate Israel. Under such circumstances, Israel is not morally required to wait for the first missle to launch or the first smuggled in bomb to go off. As the Wermacht massed on the Czechoslovakian border and Hitler declared his intention to invade, if the Czechs had had the ability to attack first to cripple Hitler or to gain a strategic advantage they would have been justified in doing so. So the first example involves a clearly stated present or future intention to do harm under circumstances where the recipient of the threat is at least unsure as to the intetions of the one making the threat. Lets start with this one. There are othersituations which are less clear (though still justified IMO), but I think I am on my strongest moral footing for pre-emption in the above scenario. Thoughts?
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05-04-2006, 02:48 AM | #19 | |
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As far as preemptive attacks are concerned, who's to say that the "we're going to attack such-and-such country" are true plans and not just political rhetoric? Looking at the way the world works, it seems like there is more political rhetoric than actual battle plans. If we attack a country in the name of "protecting ourselves," and there really wasn't a plan to attack us, we've become the agressor. And that is what I have no tolerance for. I would rather lose my life because of someone else's sin than to commit the sin myself. That may sound dramatic, but it's (and I hate to say this) the Christian way to be. I don't know how we can call ourselves Christians if we've become agressors? Shouldn't we let eternal justice be served by allowing the sin to be committed before we pass judgement and act? Again, I'd truly rather lose my life than to be an agressor. If we are attacked, then goodness yes, we can blow them to high hell in response. Because then, and ONLY then, would that be DEFENSE. Anything else would be starting a war. I guess my concerns with the Iran situation are these: 1) Iran is nothing but talk. They will not attack us. ESPECIALLY not with nuclear weapons. No one will attack us with nuclear weapons. I don't know why any one of us would think that another nation would be so stupid as to attack us and our 5,700+ active nuclear warheads. Think about it. They all know that we have them, and they know that we would use them back on them if they used one against us. No way would they use their weapons on us. 2) From several reports I've read, they are still 7-10 years out from having viable weapons. 3) This is Israel's issue. If Iran wants to fight Israel, they can fight Israel. If Israel wants our help after Iran has attacked them, then we can help them. But we don't have room in our budget to do Israel's dirty work for them (meaning: doing their preemptive attacks for them). If Iran amassed troops on our border and then declared an intention to invade, or if they had planes in the air heading for our coasts, then yes, by all means we would be justified in fighting at once. But all we've seen from Iran is rhetoric. Why act on that? So I ask you this: would you rather be an agressor or lose your life because of someone else's agression? Which do you think fits better in the eternal scheme of things? Tim
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05-04-2006, 03:36 AM | #20 | |
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This is ______'s issue. Darfur, the Jews, Rwanda, Ethiopia, poor people....
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