05-02-2008, 01:56 PM | #1 |
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Mosiah 18:13-14
Does anyone know of historical evidence for connecting water baptism to the Spirit decending on someone in a pre-NT time frame?
If someone can connect the "ruah" notion of the Spirit as "Holy Wind" or "Holy Breath of God," I'd be particularly interested. I'm about to start rummaging through my Jewish materials and am hoping someone can point me in a useful direction...
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 05-02-2008 at 02:04 PM. |
05-02-2008, 03:41 PM | #2 | |
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Quote:
1. Stephen Gero, "The Spirit as a Dove at the Baptism of Jesus" in Novum Testamentum, Vol. 18, Fasc. 1 (Jan., 1976), pp. 17-35. http://www.jstor.org/pss/1560595 Gero, in discussing the dove descending at Jesus' baptism, discounts others who have considered it as "an allusion to the winged psyche or a direct reflection of oriental myths of the begetting or "adoption" of the royal hero by a goddess (Ishtar-Atargatis- Semiramis?) in the guise of a dove." (pg. 17). Sounds like this might be a clue to other Semitic traditions of a Spirit or god descending upon someone (but no water baptism) 2. Ernest Best, "Spirit-Baptism" in Novum Testamentum, Vol. 4, Fasc. 3, (Oct., 1960), pp. 236-243. http://www.jstor.org/pss/1560126 Best discusses some of the problems with the history of baptism by the spirit and baptism by water. (and baptism by fire). He states "But in so far as we can trace the primitive tradition it did not associate Spirit-baptism with Christian baptism but with Pentecost;" (pg. 239) Again, no baptism. Sorry if this ends up being a red herring, but they're interesting articles.
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I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free. - Epitaph of Nikos Kazantzakis (1883-1957) Last edited by Solon; 05-02-2008 at 03:47 PM. Reason: clarification |
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05-02-2008, 03:53 PM | #3 | |
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Quote:
I haven't done much looking yet, but it appears that a decent argument can be made that Mosiah 18:13-14 is anachronistic.
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. |
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05-02-2008, 04:04 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
I look at the creation the same way: -First, Adam was created "from the dust of the earth." (Interpret that however you'd like). -Then, Eve was not created the same way; rather she came from Adam's rib. -After that, all people came through the natural order of mortal conception. Eve was not created from the dust as Adam, because the rib method was preferred. But Adam could not have used the rib method for obvious reasons. Thus the more miraculous methods occur once and once only to get things on the right track. |
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