Immigration video...unreal.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Thank you, Reverend.

That argument is crap. If there were millions of Swedes crossing the border every year illegally I'd have a big problem with it.

And they'd be as lily-white as I am.

But they aren't. And if the net effect of them coming across the border was net positive for you, and if you preached against them using lies and manipulative tactics, then you would most likely be racist (or anti-Swede in this case).

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by jay santos

What really is hard for these guys to swallow is that the economy is booming BECAUSE of immigration not IN SPITE of it.

You couldn't suddenly yank thousands of low skilled workers from the economy and expect anything other than a recession to be the result of that. Wages would have to go up, but the problem is that companies would decide they can't afford to fill all the jobs and the economy would slow down. Everything those companies produce would get more expensive and consumers would pay for it.

[The Borg]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

My dear, partially-robotic friend, here is the history, by number and rate:

(Apologies to Tex, I could not find a link from Wikipedia. )

http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-08.pdf

Very nice BG...thanks!

Interesting to note, that before 1990, there were only (I think) 7 or 8 years that were higher than anything after 1990. And I think all those years were preceeding the first world war. I wonder if there is any correlation?

Other than that...pre 1990, the numbers were VASTLY smaller than the rates we are currently at.

Again, this is only the "legal" immigrants being numbered. I wonder what today's "real" number of total immigrants (legal + illegal) really is?

For reasons that I and Archaea state, comparing todays demands of immigrant and yesteryears immigrants are apples and oranges. Yesteryears immigrants did not place the demands on govt. aid, insurances, welfare, medical...that todays immigrants do.

Hey...I have no knowledge of who this guy even is in this video...all I wanted to point out is, that whatever percentage of what he is saying is correct...it's still pretty alarming. And, can one argue the impact this is having in our society.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Not true, Mr. Borg-man.

One of the ways he exaggerates his claims is by using raw numbers (one million, etc.) instead of per capita numbers. Even per capita, we're at the highest point since the forties, but it's not unprecedented, and not near as dramatic as the raw numbers would have you believe.

I was at an immigrant family's birthday party Friday. Not a single one of the adults spoke English. At all. But all of the kids interacted in English, even though they're clearly from Spanish-speaking homes and could just as easily conduct their playtime in Spanish. I think the argument that there's no assimilation is exaggerated.

the second generation practically all speak English. For LDS if you don't believe that go visit a Spanish ward sometime. My stake has a Spanish branch where the primary and young mens/young womens combine with one of the English wards. Their sacrament and adult meetings are in Spanish.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by The Borg

For reasons that I and Archaea state, comparing todays demands of immigrant and yesteryears immigrants are apples and oranges. Yesteryears immigrants did not place the demands on govt. aid, insurances, welfare, medical...that todays immigrants do.

This may be the case...like I said I really am embarrassingly uninformed about this issue.

My original point was simply that I don't approve of exaggeration and emotional fearmonger tactics being used by this gentleman.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

This may be the case...like I said I really am embarrassingly uninformed about this issue.

My original point was simply that I don't approve of exaggeration and emotional fearmonger tactics being used by this gentleman.

ok, then change laws so that temp workers are not eligible for government aid. Or cut back those programs anyway. As a libertarian that's the direction I would go.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by BlueK

ok, then change laws so that temp workers are not eligible for government aid. Or cut back those programs anyway. As a libertarian that's the direction I would go.

Thank you, Dr. Paul.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

My dear, partially-robotic friend, here is the history, by number and rate:

(Apologies to Tex, I could not find a link from Wikipedia. )

http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-08.pdf

Just gotta look harder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigra..._United_States

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BlueK

ok, then change laws so that temp workers are not eligible for government aid. Or cut back those programs anyway. As a libertarian that's the direction I would go.

I could support this.

My concern is that new immigrants need some homogenization, some introduction into our form of government, our culture and our values.

For the betterment of Mexican immigrants, an emphasis by somebody they will trust, needs to be placed on education. We need cheap labor that immigrants provide. Yet the demands of these unskilled laborers are not without social or real costs. It is changing our culture and not necessarily for the good. The main observation I have about the low skilled Mexican culture is their lack of appreciation for the need for education. If that desire ran throughout their culture, I doubt I'd be as concerned.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't know the numbers, but Mexican immigration is culturally different. The focus of Mexican culture is different than the focus of Chinese, German, Irish or Italian.

Although Mexican children who are in the school district do learn English, they don't do well in school, generally, not specifically. The Mexican culture, unlike past countries and cultures emphasizing education, does not emphasize education and assimilation to the same degree previous generations of immigrants. I make this assumption based on my own anecdotal evidence and if it can be disproven, then I'll stand corrected. This does not address what individual families do.

I am familiar with test scores at our school, and the immigrants do lower the test scores.

I am also familiar with the attitudes of some past immigrants, where the mother language was NOT spoken in the home to force the children to learn good English. The difference in performance stems from a difference in attitude created by the difference in the Mexican culture, which has never harbored the same interest in education that China, Japan, Korea, Germany, England or Italy have held.

Look at the entire history of Mexico post-Columbian era, and where has there been an emphasis in Mexican culture on education? I'm not intimate with all the details, but generally I'm not aware of such an emphasis across the board. Wealthy Mexicans may have a different emphasis by wanting to be wealthy. The Mexican culture is different and its differences contribute to difficulties in assimilation.

I came to this country from Taiwan when I was 6, and my parents spoke English to me so I could catch up in school. But I can tell you this:

*Assimilation for the 2nd generation is natural if you follow the path of least resistance.

*I commend Latinos for their better track record of preserving their language/culture compared to Asians. Being cut off from your past is not a good thing (look at African Americans).

*Mexicans may not emphasis education as much, but they do have high levels of entrepreneurship. Don't neglect all the good they bring.