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Old 05-31-2007, 05:01 PM   #11
BarbaraGordon
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I've gotta be honest with you, Borg, this is not a topic I know much (read: anything) about. But I know a bit about numbers, and I know when I smell a rat (this guy reeks!).

I can post the immigration rates for you in a bit. The html is not pasting correctly and I'll have to edit.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
This anti-immigration stuff is just cleverly disguised racism.
Holy Cow!

Just because I believe there is a limit to what our country can realistically absorb...I'm racist? That's a good one.

Ok...I'll no longer subscribe to racism...open the boarders! Whoever wants to come here...come on in! It doesn't matter who or how many! We'll take care of you! Bring us your tired! Your hungry...! It's a free for all!
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:17 PM   #13
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I don't know the numbers, but Mexican immigration is culturally different. The focus of Mexican culture is different than the focus of Chinese, German, Irish or Italian.

Although Mexican children who are in the school district do learn English, they don't do well in school, generally, not specifically. The Mexican culture, unlike past countries and cultures emphasizing education, does not emphasize education and assimilation to the same degree previous generations of immigrants. I make this assumption based on my own anecdotal evidence and if it can be disproven, then I'll stand corrected. This does not address what individual families do.

I am familiar with test scores at our school, and the immigrants do lower the test scores.

I am also familiar with the attitudes of some past immigrants, where the mother language was NOT spoken in the home to force the children to learn good English. The difference in performance stems from a difference in attitude created by the difference in the Mexican culture, which has never harbored the same interest in education that China, Japan, Korea, Germany, England or Italy have held.

Look at the entire history of Mexico post-Columbian era, and where has there been an emphasis in Mexican culture on education? I'm not intimate with all the details, but generally I'm not aware of such an emphasis across the board. Wealthy Mexicans may have a different emphasis by wanting to be wealthy. The Mexican culture is different and its differences contribute to difficulties in assimilation.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Borg View Post
Holy Cow!

Just because I believe there is a limit to what our country can realistically absorb...I'm racist? That's a good one.

Ok...I'll no longer subscribe to racism...open the boarders! Whoever wants to come here...come on in! It doesn't matter who or how many! We'll take care of you! Bring us your tired! Your hungry...! It's a free for all!
I didn't call you a racist, but I will call racist the act of intentionally, dishonestly manipulating a case against immigration.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:32 PM   #15
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My dear, partially-robotic friend, here is the history, by number and rate:

(Apologies to Tex, I could not find a link from Wikipedia. )

http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-08.pdf
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay santos View Post

This anti-immigration stuff is just cleverly disguised racism.
Thank you, Reverend.

That argument is crap. If there were millions of Swedes crossing the border every year illegally I'd have a big problem with it.

And they'd be as lily-white as I am.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Borg View Post
You have some points.

However, what I took away from that is not really "cheap statistics" ...but I believe the real point he was trying to make is that immigration is happening at unprecedented rates.

Way back when, and even I would be in the "red" 4 generations ago, times were different. Frontier was available, raw labor was scarce, etc. Not so in our times. Govt. assistance was practically never heard of, taxes were reasonable, social security was not around, welfare...not really an issue as families took care of families...not so much these days.

Back then, immigrants were 'absorbed' into our country and culture. Today, immigrants hold on to their culture, insisting ours changes to meet theirs. They don't want to learn English, wanting us to learn Spanish or some other language to meet their needs. It is very divisive and totally different from the times I think you are referring to.

I think that is the point trying to be made.
It's not rising at unprecedented rates. It was much greater in the 1800s as a percent of the entire population.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Borg View Post
Holy Cow!

Just because I believe there is a limit to what our country can realistically absorb...I'm racist? That's a good one.

Ok...I'll no longer subscribe to racism...open the boarders! Whoever wants to come here...come on in! It doesn't matter who or how many! We'll take care of you! Bring us your tired! Your hungry...! It's a free for all!
The economy is the decider of how much can be absorbed, and not politicians or other rabble rousers trying to make us worried about a problem that is not what they say it is. The economy hardly stinks right now. In fact it's booming. I don't know why we ignore that fact when talking about immigration and only talk about the negatives.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
The economy is the decider of how much can be absorbed, and not politicians or other rabble rousers trying to make us worried about a problem that is not what they say it is. The economy hardly stinks right now. In fact it's booming. I don't know why we ignore that fact when talking about immigration and only talk about the negatives.
What really is hard for these guys to swallow is that the economy is booming BECAUSE of immigration not IN SPITE of it.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:41 PM   #20
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a very good article on immigration using facts and sound economic arguments. The cato institute are no slouches.

http://www.freetrade.org/node/661
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