Sniper video on CNN - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Cali Coug · 10-20-2006, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

As I see it the only choices are too dramatically increase the boots on the ground, so you can do aggressive interdiction and simultaneous institution building, but I think this only workds if you are prepared to spend a lot of money, a lot more blood and a lot more years. Or you need to have a phased withdrawal. The status quo will almost certainly result only in loss of blood and treasure, without hope of payoff.

It seems to me that there is no political will to take the long term view (which I think is the best and most advantageous policy for US interests in the long term). Therefore I think that the only real choice is how soon we begin withdrawal.

Excellent post. Long term will is critical to any sort of stability in Iraq and the Middle East.

Taking the middle ground on this position makes just as much sense as taking the middle ground on the border. Either secure our border or open it. Don't waste time, money and lives with a half secure border. Worst of both worlds.

As an aside, the real answer is for us to get away from oil dependence so when the inevitable wars begin in the Middle East after our premature withdrawal (no jokes please) we don't get screwed.

MikeWaters · 10-20-2006, 04:25 AM

I heard an NPR piece calling our current period "the Islamic Reformation."

In other words, there is an intense debate among Muslims that is being sorted out. There is no Pope in Islam. No central authority. Groups and ideas are vying for supremacy.

Perhaps we should stand in the background. Keep in view. And be seen holding a very large stick.

We are good at beating on peoples heads with our stick. We are less good at patching up bloody folks, esp. while their buddies are hitting us with little sticks of their own.

Over the horizon force. Destroy, get out. Rinse and repeat.

danimal · 10-20-2006, 04:57 AM

I work with Iraqi vets and get consistent feedback that the military in Iraq is not well organized and is routinely putting soldiers in harms way without any clear benefits to be gained. Despite the amount of time that troops have been over there, the military either still lacks a clear strategy, is incompetent to carry it out, or has a losing strategy.

Also, people underestimate how demoralizing it is to see your buddies killed day in and day out. Troop morale can not be maintained if events continue on this course.

il Padrino Ute · 10-20-2006, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

hard to kill the enemy when you don't know who or where they are.

and if you commit genocide, well, hard to argue they are better off all dead than with Sadaam.

That's an excellent point. I'm really not serious about using nuclear weapons, but I do feel that it's time to turn it up a notch. If the Iraqis that area not a part of the insurgent faction don't start doing their part to put an end to it, I believe they should be treated as if they are a part of the insurgency. I'll defer to Goatnapper about the true strength of the US Military, but I think one could safely assume that right now, it is the most powerful military on the planet and could end this thing sooner rather than later.

In '68 when the N. Vietnamese launched the Tet offensive, it was supposed to have been a blow to the US troops; however, the US won that battle, yet Lyndon Johnson didn't have the guts to turn it up a notch in an election year because of public opinion. Nixon won and troops were still involved until Saigon fell in I believe it was '76. Had Johnson ignored the bleeding heart hippies (today's liberal left leaders) and kicked some ass, the outcome in that war may have ended sooner and less lives would have been lost.

It seems the Bush administration is suffering from the same pussy-footedness that the Johnson administration had. Unpopular war during an election year = candy-assed politicians.

Surfah · 10-20-2006, 06:00 AM

I will speak in regards to the video only. I thought it was disgusting and irresponsible journalism of CNN to show it.

il Padrino Ute · 10-20-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

I will speak in regards to the video only. I thought it was disgusting and irresponsible journalism of CNN to show it.

Agreed, but considering the source, it's not really surprising, is it?

il Padrino Ute · 10-20-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Perhaps we should stand in the background. Keep in view. And be seen holding a very large stick.

Is Mike really Teddy Roosevelt reincarnated?

non sequitur · 10-20-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

I will speak in regards to the video only. I thought it was disgusting and irresponsible journalism of CNN to show it.

Why is it irresponsible? War is ugly and brutal. It should be shown as such. What's disgusting is politicians who wrap themselves in the flag and spin this war as some sort of noble venture. People should see this war for what it is.

RockyBalboa · 10-20-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Why is it irresponsible? War is ugly and brutal. It should be shown as such. What's disgusting is politicians who wrap themselves in the flag and spin this war as some sort of noble venture. People should see this war for what it is.

Yeah,,,I'm sure the parents of those killed soldiers are just thrilled that their death was broadcast for all to see.......

creekster · 10-20-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Why is it irresponsible? War is ugly and brutal. It should be shown as such. What's disgusting is politicians who wrap themselves in the flag and spin this war as some sort of noble venture. People should see this war for what it is.

Isn't every war ugly and brutal?

10-20-2006, 04:57 AM	#13
danimal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Your mom's house Posts: 588	I work with Iraqi vets and get consistent feedback that the military in Iraq is not well organized and is routinely putting soldiers in harms way without any clear benefits to be gained. Despite the amount of time that troops have been over there, the military either still lacks a clear strategy, is incompetent to carry it out, or has a losing strategy. Also, people underestimate how demoralizing it is to see your buddies killed day in and day out. Troop morale can not be maintained if events continue on this course. __________________ Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters. Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people? Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...but it might work for us.

10-20-2006, 06:00 AM	#15
Surfah Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: F'burg, VA Posts: 3,211	I will speak in regards to the video only. I thought it was disgusting and irresponsible journalism of CNN to show it. __________________ Ernie Johnson: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort." Charles Barkley: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

10-20-2006, 04:25 AM	#12
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I heard an NPR piece calling our current period "the Islamic Reformation." In other words, there is an intense debate among Muslims that is being sorted out. There is no Pope in Islam. No central authority. Groups and ideas are vying for supremacy. Perhaps we should stand in the background. Keep in view. And be seen holding a very large stick. We are good at beating on peoples heads with our stick. We are less good at patching up bloody folks, esp. while their buddies are hitting us with little sticks of their own. Over the horizon force. Destroy, get out. Rinse and repeat.