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Old 10-04-2006, 03:41 PM   #11
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Seriously, this seems very strange to me. Spend $2 billion to attract heathens to Mecca, surrounding the sanctum sanctorum with all the glitz and latest trapings of popular Western culture--fancy hand bag shops, multi-plexes, sushi bars, bars. It sums up LDS culture's myriad contraditions. It actually reminds me of some ill-fated Soviet initiative in Siberia. Whatever, it's your tithing dollars at work.
LOL. Classic.

For what it's worth, they claim that no tithing dollars will be used.
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Old 10-04-2006, 03:43 PM   #12
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LOL. Classic.

For what it's worth, they claim that no tithing dollars will be used.
Right. Fuzzy numbers.
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Old 10-04-2006, 03:47 PM   #13
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Right. Fuzzy numbers.
Well, Crossroads mall is already there... if your choice is to make the city nicer, add green space, jobs, and housing to the area or keep the status quo, I'd go with the change. And if the church can pay for it without tax dollars, even better.
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Old 10-04-2006, 03:52 PM   #14
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Right. Fuzzy numbers.
Where are they getting the money?

The church has billions in liquid money that does not come from tithing? That's a crazy amount of money. Wish the books were more open.
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:22 PM   #15
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Okay, sorry to sound a discouraging note, but why should the Church spend that much money to spruce up downtown SLC?

How does that benefit Church membership, especially outside Utah? We could use that much to set up a university in Latin America or to really jump start research at BYU.

Whether tithing or other monies are used is irrelevant. If it's not tithing, then tithing will be used for other purposes to which this largesse of "nontithing" could be otherwise used. The Church is not that wealthy that Two Billion is insignificant. Count me in as perhaps the only card carring member who doesn't think this is a great investment for the Church and its members at large.

I will never reside in Utah and what goes on at HQ doesn't benefit anybody I know.
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:27 PM   #16
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Okay, sorry to sound a discouraging note, but why should the Church spend that much money to spruce up downtown SLC?

How does that benefit Church membership, especially outside Utah? We could use that much to set up a university in Latin America or to really jump start research at BYU.

Whether tithing or other monies are used is irrelevant. If it's not tithing, then tithing will be used for other purposes to which this largesse of "nontithing" could be otherwise used. The Church is not that wealthy that Two Billion is insignificant. Count me in as perhaps the only card carring member who doesn't think this is a great investment for the Church and its members at large.

I will never reside in Utah and what goes on at HQ doesn't benefit anybody I know.

$2 billion would put BYU in the top ten in endowment size.
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:34 PM   #17
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I am assuming they feel that if downtown is protected, than the headquarters of the church will always be protected.

It's great for the city, and potentially could be great for the church as they could receive a significant return on their investment, but I could see how it doesn't make much sense for an out of stater.

Two billion dollars cash is a lot of scrilla, makes you wonder how much money the church has and what exactly is the value of the church. The membership is not growing as fast as they claim, Mormons aren't richer than the average American, Utah isn't a center of commerce, I can only assume that outside business ventures of the church are highly successful.

I do find it ironic the church is developing a 'progressive community' as that is what it appears it will turn into.
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:42 PM   #18
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Ishtar
Are you saying that this development will be a gargantuan flop?
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:45 PM   #19
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Not a dime is coming from tithing per President Hinckley in his closing address on Saturday's Conference.

The church has wealth beyond our comprehension. I mean look at the church's assets in real estate alone. Think of the properties in Hawaii, Hong Kong, DC, Europe, etc.

I like the idea of green space on Main and removing the street for auto access and strictly with a stop for Trax. That seems like a nice buffer between the temple grounds and the new construction of Babylonia. I don't think it's that big a contradiction in terms of the idea of industry that has always been central to Mormon belief and culture. Although I think Nordstroms and Macy's may be perverting that a bit.

Something is needed though. Downtown is dead. I wish someone could redevelop the entire area north of temple square by West HS extending from I-15 to the avenues. I wonder how they keep transients away from the new project. Or do they keep letting them set up camp during the day Pioneer Park? It's a sad sight to behold.
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Old 10-04-2006, 04:54 PM   #20
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Just as surfah has said, the church has money everywhere. Besides all the land that has temples, church houses, etc...there is double that in land that doesn't have anything on that and is simply waiting to do something with it like putting up more churches, temples, etc. On top of that, the church has thousands and thousands of acres of land that is being used for dairies, agriculture, etc.

The church comes off looking really good in regards to 'spending' this money...but the church fully expects to make quite a bit of money over the next 20-30 years thru leases, etc. to make up that cost. Generous by the church initially, but the church will do well in getting its return especially when you figure that there will be over 120 stores paying rent every month (and most likely, an expensive lease for each of these businesses) along with the housing units, etc.

You have this development project to go along with Gateway, the new library, the Delta Center, Trax, the Bees stadium and the capitol and you have some good things going on downtown.
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