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Old 07-18-2008, 04:47 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Levin View Post
Because it won't come on line for years and the quantity of oil it will produce by comparison to the market is miniscule.
Bull.

First, the potential amount of oil brought to market is not exactly known, but it is not miniscule.

Second, years from now we will STILL need oil. The "it won't be here for years" is one of the dumber arguments in this debate. It's like a 35-year-old saying, "Why should I save for retirement? I'm still working!"

Third, oil prices are sensitive to perception. It's not strictly supply/demand but also the perception of supply/demand. Some analysts believe that the two-day drop in oil we just saw may be related to the (relatively) meaningless revocation of the executive order banning off-shore drilling.

There is no good reason not to go full bore ahead in getting this oil production ramped up.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:55 AM   #22
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There is no good reason not to go full bore ahead in getting this oil production ramped up.
There's one very good reason: it's another shot of crack.

Responses to some of others:

When OPEC ups production, they do it NOW.

Miniscule == miniscule compared to the overall current supply. Putting a twinkie on a shelf full of boxes and boxes of twinkies will not decrease the price of twinkies. Supply and demand. You have to increase supply by a marginal amount. US offshore drilling won't do it.

Perception of oil traders = what will affect their perception more than anything would be policy that would put them on notice: the big kahuna customer is leaving the market. All we're saying now is: give me more crack. You enact Gore's policy of ridding ourselves of oil by 2018 and the price of oil would PLUMMET. (Gore's off his rocker, but it proves the point.)
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Levin View Post
There's one very good reason: it's another shot of crack.

Responses to some of others:

When OPEC ups production, they do it NOW.

Miniscule == miniscule compared to the overall current supply. Putting a twinkie on a shelf full of boxes and boxes of twinkies will not decrease the price of twinkies. Supply and demand. You have to increase supply by a marginal amount. US offshore drilling won't do it.

Perception of oil traders = what will affect their perception more than anything would be policy that would put them on notice: the big kahuna customer is leaving the market. All we're saying now is: give me more crack. You enact Gore's policy of ridding ourselves of oil by 2018 and the price of oil would PLUMMET. (Gore's off his rocker, but it proves the point.)
Here are some actual estimates I posted a while ago. I don't think the word miniscule means what you think it means.

Gore's "policy" is unrealistic, which is why he's off his rocker. And you can use a cute drug euphemism if you want, but like it or not, oil is here to stay for a very long time. Your "no more crack" attitude is what has brought us to $4/gal gasoline.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:31 PM   #24
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Man is it easy to see who has been drinking from the greenies bowl of elixir.

Yes Levin if they started drilling today it would take a few years for the oil to get into the actual production lines, just think if they had waited to start drilling in Prudhoe Bay in the 70's, what would the price of fuel be today?

The reason why they want to be able to drill their is because of how much easier it is to get that oil into production, ie: the oil isn't 46 miles deep because they have tapped out the easier resources getting to the 46 mile deep resources.

It costs a staggering amount of $$$ to drill offshore, the oil companies wouldn't wish to drill there if there were eaiser oil to be had.

I sure wish there was oil by my front mailbox, and all of my neighbors also. I would bet that most of my neighbors wouldn't complain too loudly about alowing the Exxons of the world to drill if they thought it would lower gas to under $2 a gallon again.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:21 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tex View Post
Here are some actual estimates I posted a while ago. I don't think the word miniscule means what you think it means.

Gore's "policy" is unrealistic, which is why he's off his rocker. And you can use a cute drug euphemism if you want, but like it or not, oil is here to stay for a very long time. Your "no more crack" attitude is what has brought us to $4/gal gasoline.
And I wish gas were $10 a gallon. We need a cultural shift of cataclysmic proportions if we're going to make it here. Suburbs will have to contract, inner-cities rejuvinate, public transportation explode, consumption reduced . . .

An economy driven by uncontrolled consumption, far-flung housing developments connected to cities inefficient concrete is on its way out . . . It has to be if we all want to make here.

I'm for becoming sober as soon as we can. So let's make it hurt.

I'm for the immediate end of sending trillions of dollars into the hands of the Russians, Venezuelans, and Arabs. I'm for keeping that gargantuan amount of capital at home (and not in the form of oil dollars), but in the form of ingenious technology that will power us into the future. I'm for American creativity and entrepreneurship that must and will be unleashed as soon as we remove the chain of foreign oil. Spending the "$$$$" to extract oil on the seas is incredibly inefficient; much better to spend it on American ingenuity and entrepreneurship -- on a Manhattan-type project for new technology. Solar, tidal, geothermal, water (not wind -- migratory bird holocausts; and not biofuel -- in a lot of ways worse than oil) -- we can do it, and we have to do it. For our economy, for our national security, and for the earth.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Levin View Post
I'm for the immediate end of sending trillions of dollars into the hands of the Russians, Venezuelans, and Arabs. I'm for keeping that gargantuan amount of capital at home (and not in the form of oil dollars), but in the form of ingenious technology that will power us into the future. I'm for American creativity and entrepreneurship that must and will be unleashed as soon as we remove the chain of foreign oil. Spending the "$$$$" to extract oil on the seas is incredibly inefficient; much better to spend it on American ingenuity and entrepreneurship -- on a Manhattan-type project for new technology. Solar, tidal, geothermal, water (not wind -- migratory bird holocausts; and not biofuel -- in a lot of ways worse than oil) -- we can do it, and we have to do it. For our economy, for our national security, and for the earth.
Nice, Mr. Levin Goes to Washington.

You keep right on dreaming of pixie dust and dilithium crystals while galloping through candyland on the back of your pink unicorn. Those of us that reside here in the real world will stick to reality.

P.S. I was ok with wind before your little sunshine and lollypops speech and I'm even more for it now.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by landpoke View Post
Nice, Mr. Levin Goes to Washington.

You keep right on dreaming of pixie dust and dilithium crystals while galloping through candyland on the back of your pink unicorn. Those of us that reside here in the real world will stick to reality.

P.S. I was ok with wind before your little sunshine and lollypops speech and I'm even more for it now.
It takes both kinds in this world; glad you're here.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Levin View Post
And I wish gas were $10 a gallon. We need a cultural shift of cataclysmic proportions if we're going to make it here. Suburbs will have to contract, inner-cities rejuvinate, public transportation explode, consumption reduced . . .

An economy driven by uncontrolled consumption, far-flung housing developments connected to cities inefficient concrete is on its way out . . . It has to be if we all want to make here.

I'm for becoming sober as soon as we can. So let's make it hurt.

I'm for the immediate end of sending trillions of dollars into the hands of the Russians, Venezuelans, and Arabs. I'm for keeping that gargantuan amount of capital at home (and not in the form of oil dollars), but in the form of ingenious technology that will power us into the future. I'm for American creativity and entrepreneurship that must and will be unleashed as soon as we remove the chain of foreign oil. Spending the "$$$$" to extract oil on the seas is incredibly inefficient; much better to spend it on American ingenuity and entrepreneurship -- on a Manhattan-type project for new technology. Solar, tidal, geothermal, water (not wind -- migratory bird holocausts; and not biofuel -- in a lot of ways worse than oil) -- we can do it, and we have to do it. For our economy, for our national security, and for the earth.
This is liberal thinking at it's finest .... "we know what's best, the free market be damned."

Sooner or later when presented with facts, they drift off into a utopian stupor.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #29
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This is liberal thinking at it's finest .... "we know what's best, the free market be damned."

Sooner or later when presented with facts, they drift off into a utopian stupor.
What I'm actually counting on is the free market, if you can't tell. I said nothign about command-and-obey policymaking (I said Gore was off his rocker). The market is finally giving us what we need, and we're responding as we should -- more Civics, fewer Expeditions; collapsing suburban home markets; burgeoning inner-city markets . . . But the changes have to be absolutely game-changing for America to stay dominant economically. We're draining away our wealth and future by funneling it overseas.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:34 PM   #30
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It takes both kinds in this world; glad you're here.
You're new here so I'm going to let you in on a secret: nobody pulls "We'll agree to disagree" out of their ass around here. We fight until the bitter bloody end, regardless of how stalemated, backed into a corner, right and/or wrong we are.

Get with the program.
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