Last night I'm driving home from work at like 7:00

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Now you know darn good and well that if a presidential candidate or a CEO or a talk show host or anyone who matters in the public sphere for that matter, especially a white male, said this,



It would mean his immediate self-destruction.

YOu may be right, but we aren't parsing our words here as carefully as we should be if we were running for president. Tex is just some schlub that like you and me bangs out some psots between doing other things in ihis work day and probabyl, like you and me, doens't give much thought to the phrasing of all of his comments. Like I said, I suppose you can see rascism in the statement on its face, I just don't think it was intended.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Do you mean when I said that Brigham Young's crying about the incident was not highly probabitive of his innocence?

Or when I said that how good a movie is September Dawn, not how factual it is, is the most important question for Mormons concerned about its impact?

Or when I said how much sense does it make that the Saints who actually killed the pioneers did so on their own initiative given Mormons' respect for chain of command and Brigham Young's stature and visibility in that young Mormon community?

How is any of the foregoing remotely analogous to Tex's post saying "I don't want no Mexican mass murderers to immigrate?"

It seems to me you drew some conclusions based on suppositions. That is all I was saying. I don't think I said there was anything wrong with it, just that you did it.

BY may have given the instructions or he may not have. If you agree with that then perhaps I misread you.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

You are one of the few people on this board who could object to the desire to prohibit murderers from illegally entering the country.

Tex, saying "I like blacks [Chinese, Hispanics, whatever, fill in the blank] who have high morals and are hard working" is one of the most infamous and cliched racist comments that can possibly be made, apart from just hurling an epithet at them. The fact that you are blind to it just reinforces my point. In this day and age this statement is most often made jokingly in parody of an ignoramus or bigot.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Tex, saying "I like blacks [Chinese, Hispanics, whatever, fill in the blank] who have high morals and are hard working" is one of the most infamous and cliched racist comments that can possibly be made, apart from just hurling an epithet at them. The fact that you are blind to it just reinforces my point. In this day and age this statement is most often made jokingly in parody of an ignoramus or bigot.

Hmm, except that's not what I said. There's nothing racist about wanting hard-working immigrants, and not wanting murder-prone immigrants. I said nothing about race.

That you think it is about race illustrates why the immigration issue can't get traction.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

YOu may be right, but we aren't parsing our words here as carefully as we should be if we were running for president. Tex is just some schlub that like you and me bangs out some psots between doing other things in ihis work day and probabyl, like you and me, doens't give much thought to the phrasing of all of his comments. Like I said, I suppose you can see rascism in the statement on its face, I just don't think it was intended.

I agree except that since Tex is being defensive and denying the clear racist connotation of his comment, and people here don't seem to get it, the purpose of my comment that the public would not tolerate such a statement by a public figure is to demonstrate that public mores agree with me. Often in this type of a discussion that's the best source of higher authority to cite, and you'll see that I often resort to this in my posts, i.e., "Well, you may not agree with me, but just about all educated and informed people would."

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I agree except that since Tex is being defensive and denying the clear racist connotation of his comment, and people here don't seem to get it, the purpose of my comment that the public would not tolerate such a statement by a public figure is to demonstrate that public mores agree with me. Often in this type of a discussion that's the best source of higher authority to cite, and you'll see that I often resort to this in my posts, i.e., "Well, you may not agree with me, but just about all educated and informed people would."

This is also wrong. I've heard a couple of people make public statements about this case: that if our immigration laws were better enforced, this guy wouldn't have gotten in the country and not assisted in "executing" these students.

I don't recall anyone going down the nutty racist path that you seem obsessed with.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Tex, saying "I like blacks [Chinese, Hispanics, whatever, fill in the blank] who have high morals and are hard working" is one of the most infamous and cliched racist comments that can possibly be made, apart from just hurling an epithet at them. The fact that you are blind to it just reinforces my point. In this day and age this statement is most often made jokingly in parody of an ignoramus or bigot.

BS. What you just threw out is a liberals way of trying to throw out guilt. Who says anyone has to accept your definition. I might say I like teenagers who study hard, have high morals and want to get good grades. Does that mean I am anti teenagers?

None of us should ever let liberals or conservatives define us.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by BYU71

BS. What you just threw out is a liberals way of trying to throw out guilt. Who says anyone has to accept your definition. I might say I like teenagers who study hard, have high morals and want to get good grades. Does that mean I am anti teenagers?

None of us should ever let liberals or conservatives define us.

The difference is that everyone is a teenager at one point in their lives and you didn't single out teenagers of an immutable class. Your post proves my point. The very reason you said "teenagers" is that teenagers as a class are recognized as deficit relative to more mature people--they haven't lived as long, their hormones are screwed up, they are experiening separation urge, their brains may still be slightly smaller than full grown adults, etc.--and there is nothing wrong with implicitly suggesting that about teenagers. All of us were once teenagers, and they grow out of being teenagers.

But it is most emphaticallly wrong to say something that implies blacks or Hispanics or whatever race or ethnic group are by and large deficit relative to the rest of us. This has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. Surely you are smart enough to see the distinction. Thanks for helping me to drive the point home.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

All of us were once teenagers, and they grow out of being teenagers.

Unless you get shot and killed by an illegal immigrant whose past history had he tried to immigrate legally would have prevented him from entering the country.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Unless you get shot and killed by an illegal immigrant whose past history had he tried to immigrate legally would have prevented him from entering the country.

Feeding time at the zoo.